Jersey Royal Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi Chaps, My starter is all ok no problem, but have been giving some thought to a Hi Torque one, due to 200% more cranking, so i assume starts quicker, and they use less power. Is there a noticable difference and is it worth it? Any fit problems? Supplier? Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Hi Chaps, My starter is all ok no problem, but have been giving some thought to a Hi Torque one, due to 200% more cranking, so i assume starts quicker, and they use less power. Is there a noticable difference and is it worth it? Any fit problems? Supplier? Cheers Guy Worth every penny IMHO but source it from one of the good guy's and it should fit first time Edited December 10, 2009 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi Guy, Got one a while ago from the TR Shop on special. They are smaller than the original and I found it very easy to fit. It makes a different noise too which took me a while to get used to. Started on the button every time since. Not a necessary upgrade but useful if you have a sports manifold (smaller so more clearance). I fitted both at the same time as I was concerned about the new exhaust cooking the old starter motor. E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yes well worth while,got mine from Rimmers about 5 year ago,never gave any problems and fitted as should.If you have a manifold fitted you may have to remove it to take out old starter but wont have to after with the smaller more powerful starter fitted as there is enough clearance.I THINK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks Chaps, Sounds like a worthwhile job, however if you need to remove the manifold to remove the old starter, i will wait till the starter starts playing up. Is there no other way of getting old starter off ? I have a sports manifold Revington jobby Just checked got about half inch gap. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks Chaps, Sounds like a worthwhile job, however if you need to remove the manifold to remove the old starter, i will wait till the starter starts playing up. Is there no other way of getting old starter off ? I have a sports manifold Revington jobby Just checked got about half inch gap. Cheers Guy Guy Some you can and some you can't you will just have to try it I am afraid Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Guy Some you can and some you can't you will just have to try it I am afraid Thanks Neil, Thats what i thought, cars running like a dream so dont want to upset it, if i dont need too. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pinky Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 hi my friends what is the going price for a high torque starter motor is there different makes is thee anywhere you can buy them direct from the manufactures regards pink Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 hi my friends what is the going price for a high torque starter motor is there different makes is thee anywhere you can buy them direct from the manufactures regards pink Hi Pink Yes you can but if you do a search you will find out a lot more ie shim's required etc and then of course there is the captive bolt you will save maybe £20/30 it is not worth it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted December 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) hi my friends what is the going price for a high torque starter motor is there different makes is thee anywhere you can buy them direct from the manufactures regards pink Pink, I thing about 150 -190 Squid from Tr peeps. I believe they are Jap, Nippon Denso, but could be wrong But i do think we should support the Tr Suppliers, Makes sense for a few quid. Keep them in business But which is the best starter.. I dont know Cheers Guy Cheers Guy Edited December 10, 2009 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Guy I got one from TR Trader. I had a problem with the starter at first, but Carl sorted it and I have had no problems with it since. Starts straight away. Sounds a bit different, but that's OK. Not sure how much it was now, I got it with a pile of other bits. I'll try to find out tomorrow. Well worth doing in my opinion. I think you can get the new ones in without much trouble because they are smaller, but you may struggle getting the old one out without removing something else. Other will know more about this. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you are feeling tight you can buy a conversion kit from Canleys Classics and source your own starter from a Toyota Carina 1.6 or similar. It is also rumoured that there is a Isuzu Trooper starter which is a direct fit. If going the Canleys route, have a read of their website first so you get the right one.... They do work well and are nice and compact. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zelger Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) A worthwhile upgrade - I shopped around and got mine from TR Shop at what I felt was a good price. However, if you have the ballast resistor and low voltage coil fitted ('73 onwards, I think?) then you will have to make some simple mods to the wiring when you fit the starter (which has one terminal fewer than the car has connectors!). I found that rather confusing to start with but got useful guidance from Bill Wheeler - plusI found a section in the Rimmer TR6 catalogue which explains this. Edited December 10, 2009 by zelger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hi Guy, I too, purchased mine from the TR Shop. I also have a Phoenix manifold fitted. Picture attached below for you and you can see the clearance it gives. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I have a Phoenix manifold fitted. ..... you can see the clearance it gives. Yes, lots of room. Although if that's a captive top bolt it may give you fun if ever you have to remove it. With my existing 6-2 manifold the standard starter can be removed, just. I had it rebuilt by an ex-Lucas technician and it turns much faster, but it's jolly near to the manifold so I wrapped that part of the manifold to give some protection. Ivor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Guy it can definitely be fun to change out an original with anything other than a standard manifold but as an aside if you are going to be repainting your bulkhead it may well be a good idea to do the change at the same time as you will have to pull quite a few bits anyway. Best fun with fitting the High torque ones is the top bolt which is a fixed stud on most of them and it can be a b***h to catch the nut if you dont have the tunnel cover removed and or very small fingers Well worth the upgrade even with the change of note on starting. Mind you the way they are selling now it wont be long before no one will remember the sound of an original starter anyway Stuart. Edited December 11, 2009 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Knight Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 The old starter will wriggle out with hardly any clearance against a 6:3:1 - One inch is plenty. This is a good upgrade - available from £176 and is a straight swop. OR go the scrap yard tuning way, and save yourself at least £150 ! Toyota Corina sounds good - I used a Subaru which had to be fitted upside down ( just drill a few water drain holes ) These units are lighter by 2kg and have more power to easily start a six. You may have to elongate a bolt hole, or grind a spanner access; definately a new captive nut in the engine end plate or a new long lug, very accurately positioned, as these units are pysically smaller it wont use the OE holes - all posible when saving £150. The standard Massey Ferguson part is old, heavy, slow, draws too much currant, and is too big. Strange that the Japanese used the same teeth pitch as BL; as is 240Z wheels PCD 4-1/2". It was said in the early days they would buy established British goods - take them apart - and then produce a better product / cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
badshead Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Best fun with fitting the High torque ones is the top bolt which is a fixed stud on most of them and it can be a b***h to catch the nut if you dont have the tunnel cover removed and or very small fingers You can get them without the captive top bolt which makes them much easier to fit just like the original. I got mine from SC Parts (Nippon Denso). Makes cold starting a whole lot easier. Also, I couldn't get my old starter out with the tubular manifold, but unbolting the steering column at the top rubber donut allowed me to swing it out of the way and get the necessary clearance. Edited December 11, 2009 by badshead Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted December 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thanks to you All, Made a decision to see if i can get it out, as i have engine bay now in bits prior to repaint. Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Strange that the Japanese used the same teeth pitch as BL; as is 240Z wheels PCD 4-1/2". It was said in the early days they would buy established British goods - take them apart - and then produce a better product / cheaper. True They did it with a Landrover and they come up with a Shogun the rest have taken 20 years to catch up and they had it to start with(no pun intended) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I guess I'll be the token naysayer here There's no need for more torque than the original starter gives; I've been living for decades with the TR5/250 starter on my cars which lack the pre-engaged feature of the TR6 starter. Of course compared to my old TR4 starter ... Starting with gear oil in the engine at sub-zero temps could be another matter; I don't go there personally but do put a 60W lamp under the sump at night in winter if I know I'm going out the next AM - not for the starter but because I just like to warm the oil a bit. As for clearance - no quibble there; the manifold I use on my cars makes removal just about impossible ( not quite ) - unless the engine nearside engine mount is undone so as to allow the headers to swing out of the way . This trick worked for me when removing what turned out to be a perfectly good starter from my show car ( bad battery cable connection ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 'Scuse me guys, but am I missing something here ? What the heck is wrong with the original starter ? I spent years driving Triumph 6-pot saloons and sports cars as daily drivers, none of them ever spent a night in a garage - not in the UK, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, wherever. OK, I can't recall trying to start one at colder than -15C, although I do recall digging them out of snowdrifts to access a door, but equally I can't recall ever having to churn the starter more than twice. Was I lucky or what ? Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saffrontr Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Quite agree Alec, nothing wrong with the original starter. I've used the original 2M100 type later starter on my TR6 for the past thirty one years and had no problem in starting in all weathers or indeed removing it with the various types of exhaust manifolds that I have had in that period. just my tuppence worth cheers Derek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 A geared starter motor should provide the following advantages: 1 - the current drawn by the motor will be reduced significantly, which means that the battery voltage will not be reduced as much as would be the case with a conventional (original) starter. For the technically-minded, a battery has internal resistance so that, as soon as current is drawn, the terminal voltage is reduced from the nominal by an amount equal to the current times the internal resistance (V = IR) - the more current drawn, the lower the terminal voltage. 2 - the higher the terminal voltage, the bigger the wallop delivered by the coil to the spark plugs. However, ballasted coils (fitted to some TR6s, I understand) do help to overcome this problem of reduced battery terminal voltage when cranking the engine. 3 - the engine will be rotated more rapidly, which will tend to suck in the petrol/air mixture sooner which, one hopes, will kick the engine into life more quickly. My totally unscientific observations at our International and other events tell me that: 1 - 99% of the time, 4-pot TR engines start instantly on all 4 cylinders, just like the good old Fergie tractor! 2 - most of the time, 6-pot PI TR engines struggle to start, and then it is usually on 4 cylinders, gradually working up to 6 with a great deal of smoke and noise being produced - I have never understood why! The 6-pot engine with carburettors usually starts almost as easily as the 4-pot. Ian Cornish (I don't suppose TR5/6 owners will talk to me after this!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
88V8 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) 'Scuse me guys, but am I missing something here ? What the heck is wrong with the original starter ? Nothing. It would be a revelation to many folk if they had their original starter overhauled by a competent technician. Problem - find your technician. What this thread shows however is the power of advertising that convinces us we need something when actually we don't. Upgradeitis. The capitalist system. And the joy of personalisation. To which my own car has by no means been immune ... most of the time, 6-pot PI TR engines struggle to start, and then it is usually on 4 cylinders, gradually working up to 6 with a great deal of smoke and noise being produced - I have never understood why! The 6-pot engine with carburettors usually starts almost as easily as the 4-pot. Ian Cornish (I don't suppose TR5/6 owners will talk to me after this!) I think this is what good ole Al called 'the inconvenient truth'. In the same way the eight-pot in my Landy starts on all eight. The PI system has to pressurise, the carbs just ... work. Proves that not everything which sucks, sucks. Ivor Edited December 12, 2009 by 88V8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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