Andy Moltu Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 I am about to repair the door bottom and lower skin of my Stag. I have a good SOC door bottom, however the door skin I picked up a few years ago is pants, however the lower 3 or 4 inches is all I need. There are now better full skins available and that’s my fallback option. So the plan is to cut off the bottom of the repro skin and repair the lower door. The question is should I juggle it in or but weld it? The Stag door is significantly longer than a TR so concerned about distortion which I guess is less likely with juggling but harder to beat out than if butt welded. (MIG) opinions appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Hi Andy Joggle the joint - this should give extra support. You do not really want to be panel beating the skin with the butt weld. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 20 Author Report Share Posted February 20 Thanks that was my thought too. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 Andy, In case you decide to go the other way, it is just so satisfying when a good quality full skin goes on instead of all the cutting an' shutting an' fiddling about!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 The concern I would have with a joggled edge is it would trap moisture down the line and rot higher up as rust proofing it would be difficult unless you can get access to seam seal it along it whole length. I'd try butt welding it in very small sections and cool it. In the end if it distorts beyond a skim of filler you always have the reskin option. Stuart may have the better solution. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 It depends on whether you are MIG or TIG welding it. MIG filler wire is very hard so even if the ground out down is difficult to panel near it flat. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 27 minutes ago, PodOne said: The concern I would have with a joggled edge is it would trap moisture down the line and rot higher up as rust proofing it would be difficult unless you can get access to seam seal it along it whole length. I'd try butt welding it in very small sections and cool it. In the end if it distorts beyond a skim of filler you always have the reskin option. Stuart may have the better solution. Andy Hi Andy, The good thing about a joggled edge is you can plan which way the "joggle" is presented to weather or road driven spray. The way I would approach it is, If you "indent" the top section of the bottom of the door skin panel and slide it under the remaining top door skin, the exposed top edge of the bottom skin is hidden within your door and only has strictly limited exposure to water. Indeed you can incorporate a waterproof "pelmet" to overhang the "joggled" area across the door panel join attached to the inside of the panel so exposure to weather is extremely limited indeed. The outside of the panel join then comprises a single join and spot welded indentations across the door skin, the spot welds offer the very least distortion possible across the skin surface, being small indentations maybe 10 thou or so deep and skin distortion restrained within about a 10mm dia. After a light runover of the skin join with a DA orbital or other surface grade grinder these indentations will be very minor indeed and the smallest skim of filler should fill in these imperfections. Any of these panels, wings or front and rear scuttles and rear deck etc (see photo below) where there are flatish panel areas without supporting curvatures or pressed flares in the panel will easily distort if butt welded or even plug welded unless great care is taken. For this reason I would even be shy to try lead loading the panels, Stuart who is a great lead loader will probably post and advise if leading could safely be done. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stagpowered Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 12 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: I am about to repair the door bottom and lower skin of my Stag. I have a good SOC door bottom, however the door skin I picked up a few years ago is pants, however the lower 3 or 4 inches is all I need. There are now better full skins available and that’s my fallback option. So the plan is to cut off the bottom of the repro skin and repair the lower door. The question is should I juggle it in or but weld it? The Stag door is significantly longer than a TR so concerned about distortion which I guess is less likely with juggling but harder to beat out than if butt welded. (MIG) opinions appreciated. I would go for using a few inches of the repro skin as the first option. Even if you joggle the middle of the joint (I would, rather than butt weld it), you are still going to have butt weld the first inch or two each end. I am currently respraying my Mk2 stag. The passengers door had a joggled repair where the lower skin was repaired before I bought the car, it had only been tacked on along the join and damp eventually lifted the filler. There wasn't much rust so I ended up seam welding it and re-filling it. It had lasted at least 12 years, re-did it about 2 years ago, hopefully it will last longer this time. The drivers door was in far worse condition, I had to replace the door bottom and skin but I did use SOCTFL repair panels as the repros were truly dreadful. This was about 12 years ago when the SOCTFL skins became available Although the SOCTFL door skin is far better than the repro, it wasn't perfect in the curvature on the A post and B post and I ended up knocking the flux off some old arc welding rods and migging them on to the edges so I could grind them to fit the door gap. I replaced the RH door skin on my TR250 when I bought it 32 years ago, the gaps were equally as bad on the original skin as on the replacement so I didn't worry about it too much, but bad gaps on a Stag really stand out, hence suggesting you try replacing the bottom first. Neil Edited February 20 by Stagpowered Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 If as stated above the SOCTFL skins are reasonable then TBH I would reskin the door and then lead fill the edges to get the gaps nice, its a far quicker and neater solution, Yes Ive replaced the last 3-4" of door skins but its never an easy job due to the inner frame often restricting access to support it whilst welding, certainly a joddled joint would distort less than a butt join unless your a very skilled TIG welder. You would need to joddle the door skin so any water running down the inside would flow over it rather than into it and thats not easy to do without distorting the skin as well. As for leading across the joint Im afraid your in for trouble attempting that anything more than max 2" into the skin. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 Spent the day unpicking the old repairs to door bottom. Patches brazed over with rusty holes underneath. Then covered with half a ton of filler. Surprised that it lasted more than the 15 or so years I’ve owned the car. Then a decision on whether to get a SOC skin or plough on with repairing the bottom. I note that you suggested juggling it so the rain doesn’t run into it on the inside. I have small hands and am pretty sure I can access the seam to seal it through the cut outs. In which case would I be better doing it the other way round? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 21 Report Share Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said: Spent the day unpicking the old repairs to door bottom. Patches brazed over with rusty holes underneath. Then covered with half a ton of filler. Surprised that it lasted more than the 15 or so years I’ve owned the car. Then a decision on whether to get a SOC skin or plough on with repairing the bottom. I note that you suggested juggling it so the rain doesn’t run into it on the inside. I have small hands and am pretty sure I can access the seam to seal it through the cut outs. In which case would I be better doing it the other way round? Up to you, I would do what I have previously suggested, best repair is reskin. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 21 Author Report Share Posted February 21 I wasn't being ungrateful. The reskin was my fall back option if I cock it up!. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 14 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: I wasn't being ungrateful. The reskin was my fall back option if I cock it up!. Save your time and effort on something thats never going to be quite as good. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 Picking a skin up tomorrow as you say, easier and allows better access to the frame to treat the minor rust at the top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 8 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said: Picking a skin up tomorrow as you say, easier and allows better access to the frame to treat the minor rust at the top. Also you will probably find there is rust on the frame return edge which is also good to be able to treat. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 Door repairs coming together. Hopefully trial fit the doorframe tomorrow before finalising the welding. Skin sits on fine but better to check first as I had to cut out so much rot at the bottom of the frame - covered with clag. When fitting the skin is it better to fit with adhesive sealant or fit dry and spot weld after folding the edges over? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 When I unfolded the bottom lip to repair the frame there was no sealant or spot welds only some braze to the corners. I then folded the edge back leaded the corners and seam, shaped it and filled the seam with Bonda Rust from the inside then sloshed about until it filled the seam and seam sealed from inside. I also made the drain holes bigger and drilled a holes in the frame to allow wax injection later on plugged with a grommet. Perhaps overkill but I don't want to be revisiting it too soon! Stuart might have the definitive method on how to do it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 12 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: Door repairs coming together. Hopefully trial fit the doorframe tomorrow before finalising the welding. Skin sits on fine but better to check first as I had to cut out so much rot at the bottom of the frame - covered with clag. When fitting the skin is it better to fit with adhesive sealant or fit dry and spot weld after folding the edges over? Your choice, Adhesives to do that job would be wasteful as you really need the correct type also the mixing gun to go with and spare mixing nozzles. If you know someone with a bodyshop near you then you might be able to borrow the tool and adhesive as pretty much everything is glued together now. Personally I would braze or weld as per the factory so that`ll be all four corners and in the middle each end then a nice bead of proper seam sealant all round, that way it will look original which with any repairs is what your ultimately aiming for.The above advice about drain holes is essential as they do get wet inside. Dont forget bondarust on the frame to skin edges and as stated above plenty sloshed in around the base and then once painted waxoyl or whatever inside. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dave bailey Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 Struggled with this decision myself, but decided to repair with a home made repair section, joggled and plug welded. Access was okay, and used plenty of additional support and cooling air. Replacement skins are expensive, but I had them in mind if the repair didn't go well. The results were satisfactory and will either lead load, keeping the loading as small as possible, or use a skim of filler to go over the external joint line. Inside the door I will use seam sealer over the etch primed joint and then waxoyl inside Dave B. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Looks like a very satisfactory door repair, but I like the cat best. Is he wearing a find me tag ?? Good luck Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dave bailey Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 Yes, don't need it any more as I know where he is. Buried in the back garden. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 Well some progress after other things took over life. Any thoughts as to what to put on the inner door skin and the door frame (can of worms that turned out to be - brazed plates and more filler than my teeth) At present I have treated it with Bildt Hamber rust stabiliser then 2 coats of Bondarust. When the skin is on I will try and get Bondarust into the edges where the skin folds over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 Bondarust the frame flange before fitting the skin that way you know its in there. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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