TR4 value - but i guess you know this

[kevin bryant]

From the classicvaluer.com

Triumph TR4s Tick On Up

What's going on here?

Triumph TR4s are up 51% since 2020

Triumph produced 40,000 TR4s between 1961 and 1965.

To put that in perspective, 75,000 TR3s were produced, 95,000 TR6s rolled off the production line and a substantial 111,500 TR7s were produced also.

Only the TR2 is a rarer thing than a TR4 with 8,600 produced.

TR4 prices have been near flat pre-2020 but 2020 marked the start of an uptick that has seen prices rise from £17,102 in 2020 to £25,943 today. The World Record for one stands at £61,207 set by Mecum in the US in 2022.

Details matter though. The TR4's sibling car the TR4A, which benefited from suspension upgrades and small styling changes, has fared less well with prices down 15% over the same period.

[Lebro]

I thought TR5's were the rarest 

Bob

[stuart]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

I thought TR5's were the rarest 

Bob

They are. above article written by someone who hasnt a clue as to real world "Sold" prices.

Stuart.

[Tr4aJim]

FYI - Here’s what my insurance company here in the US (“classic car” specialists) lists for 1965 TR4/4A values.

Jim

 

 

[trchris]

I’ve said it before it’s worth what someone pays for it not what someone thinks it’s worth 

Chris

[kevin bryant]

My understanding is that these values are based on auction "sold" prices along with verified sold prices from other sources.

[Michel Higuet]

16 hours ago, trchris said:

I’ve said it before it’s worth what someone pays for it not what someone thinks it’s worth 

Chris

Don't say that after tattoos the masses dream of having a classic car...  With all these shows on car restoration on TV they will end up attracting them, scary! :-)

 

[SuzanneH]

2 hours ago, Michel Higuet said:

Don't say that after tattoos the masses dream of having a classic car...  With all these shows on car restoration on TV they will end up attracting them, scary! :-)

 

Too late they already have, about ten years ago now……..!

[badhuis]

https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results?

Auction sale prices over the years

TR4:

TR4a:

Edited November 9, 2023 by badhuis

[Michel Higuet]

2 hours ago, badhuis said:

https://www.glenmarch.com/cars/results?

Auction sale prices over the years

TR4:

TR4a:

“where there’s a will, there’s an heir.”

I will send this graph to my heirs... :-)

 

[Andy Moltu]

While interest rates and other investments risky, classic cars get seen as investments by some.

This happens in cycles. Only for the realisation that they need maintenance and insurance. Not an issue for the enthuast but for those who think they can be expected to run occasionally and perhaps serviced once a year with no thought of regular care like a modern the novelty wears off.

Then for a while the market returns to the dwindling numbers of enthusiasts withe skills to work on the cars themselves or deep pockets and a knowledgeable mechanic who can cope without a laptop fault code or resorting to swapping bits randomly until it works. 

 

 

[Michel Higuet]

19 hours ago, Andy Moltu said:

While interest rates and other investments risky, classic cars get seen as investments by some.

This happens in cycles. Only for the realisation that they need maintenance and insurance. Not an issue for the enthuast but for those who think they can be expected to run occasionally and perhaps serviced once a year with no thought of regular care like a modern the novelty wears off.

Then for a while the market returns to the dwindling numbers of enthusiasts withe skills to work on the cars themselves or deep pockets and a knowledgeable mechanic who can cope without a laptop fault code or resorting to swapping bits randomly until it works. 

 

 

It also has to do with nostalgia or the car you dreamed of having when you were young, will young people today will dream to have a TR? An old MG A? I have my doubts... The most expensive cars are old-timers but the real high-end, a real Cobra is an investment, Ferrari 250 GTO (36 examples) but a restored Ford Anglia?
I consider my TR as fun and not an investment, its value does not interest me.

I love reading stories about investments, it's crazy how people can lose their money...

[Andy Moltu]

I guess most of us on here fall into the enthusiast category rather then than investors in classic cars.

[SuzanneH]

24 minutes ago, Andy Moltu said:

I guess most of us on here fall into the enthusiast category rather then than investors in classic cars.

Yep.

[Kiwifrog]

My wife disagrees. She tells me that I invest all my time and earnings on my old car and should really be investing in a new kitchen

[arallsopp]

Its only personal anecdata at this point, but looking to my peers:

 

COVID and the homeworking culture has created a bit of an exodus from the cities. People are moving from comparatively small urban properties with on street parking to larger semi-rural piles. Suddenly they have a double garage, have freed up a bit of cash, and are establishing new lifestyles. Ideal for buying their first classic.

Those who've remained in the suburbs of London have fallen out of love with their second "proper" car. Typically, its been couples with teenage kids tending to stay in the 'burbs to finish schooling. Many of these started 2023 with very practical 10 year old diesel estates or MPVs that don't meet Euro 6 standards. Most of the rest were keeping a small petrol runabout that would eventually become the eldest's first car.

With the spread of ULEZ to all of Greater London, the value of holding onto that second car is lost. Every time they take it out, it costs them £12.50. Insurance is up ~58% this year alone. The resale value is dropping every day, MoT is a yearly nightmare, and the electronics are slowly going south. 

These people are looking at classics and realising:

• They can dodge ULEZ entirely, freeing themselves from what they see as an unfair charge and sticking it to the man in style.
• Their insurance will drop by about 85% when they switch to specialist classic insurance.
• A classic might hold or improve its value.
• The MoT becomes an optional cost, and is something they can prep for at home.
• They're no longer locked into semi-obsolete electronics and dealer servicing. 

All of this comes at a time where access to information is better than ever.

• EBay and CarandClassic means anyone can take a look without having to enter an auction house.
• Youtube, facebook groups and forums (like this) place a wealth of information at the finger tips (well thumbs) of the techno literate, raising confidence and easing the acquisition of maintenance skills.

All in, its never really been easier or more appropriate for my peers to own classics, and the momentum is gathering between them considerably. That'll drive prices alone, and I don't imagine my lot are that much of a niche compared to joe public.

[Michel Higuet]

I like the previous post, ULEZ is also know in my country of course.

Anecdote: I went to my mechanic, very competent, he works alone.
Do you have a son who will one day take over your garage?
I don't have a son and I wouldn't want him to do the same job!
Why? The evolution of technology of?
No, but this type of garage no longer has a future, everything is concentrated, more and more difficult to receive technical information, etc.

company car it's wonderful until you go to the dealer for the first time and the bill is for you...

In the future it will only be the "dealer" for us with secretaries, receptionists in aprons always immaculate ( of course he don't work! ), brake pads changed at 35% wear for my safety they say! etc...
Yesterday my guy fitted me with 4 new spark plugs that I had brought, changed the oil, topped up the windshield washer and antifreeze fluids, checked the tires and brakes and introduced the date of the next service as usual at 2 years (it's not worth it before, you don't drive enough). Total €56...

Do you need a part for your boiler in my country? Back in the day did you go to the firm's counter, today? “We only serve professionals” do you want to look a parts at their site? "Enter Pin code for your professional access please"...

We go! Where? I don't know but we go...  :-)

 

 

 

 

 

[lynchpin]

As far as I am concerned as long as I don't spend a fortune on the 4 keep it serviced, always in house with my mechanic brother luckily, and do reasonable upgrades and repairs to keep it in roadworthy and good condition and then if I get years of enjoyment from it, even if I got my money back after so far some 16yrs it was a good investment, it should however return more than I have spent over the years, after all what modern could you keep for 16yrs and get your money back ?   

                Phil ...

[John Mellor]

Bought my ex police 4 during lockdown, my son suggested that I was one of a dying breed and should have got a fast Ford if future value was important.

He may well be right; clearly high end classics can be an investment but my car puts a smile on peoples faces as well as my own - priceless

[Michel Higuet]

4 hours ago, John Mellor said:

Bought my ex police 4 during lockdown, my son suggested that I was one of a dying breed and should have got a fast Ford if future value was important.

He may well be right; clearly high end classics can be an investment but my car puts a smile on peoples faces as well as my own - priceless

Yes and important is the built number  

AC cobra 998   ( 343 coil-spring 427 Cobras )

Ford Capri    1.900.000 produced

Ford Escort impossible to count

Renault 4CV  1,105,543 produced

 

A friend had a Jeep Cherokee, lost a lot of money when he needed to sale it, the market was of course narrow... had he sold a VW Golf it was the invert.

Sale a TR? Market narrow and if you look at the drivers it is not difficult to see the market will be narrower... I don't see from millenium or Z generation will come a lot of aficionados for the beauty of the mechanic, classic-cars will be more under the pressure of environment laws ( hopefully our Masters own the high end classics... ) but still.

the generation that wants to own the TR because they dreamed of it but couldn't afford it is not far from disappearing. It is not that a MG J type 1930s is not a beautiful car, few where built, keep a very good value but in my city don't think there is only one guy thinking or dreaming to posses ( an fault I think :-) ). 

All this to simply say that if you sell toilet paper you have a huge market in front of you... :-)  A friend of mine who was a professional photographer changed to be a bicycles shop owner then came the electric bike, than the step he makes now a lot of money. The market is huge.