John L Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 I'm considering a new camshaft, has anybody had a TRGB High Torque camshaft fitted? I would be interested to know what the performance is like, they say they have fitted many and is a special grind for them, which doesn't seem to match any of the other specs listed for this engine, by the supplier/grinder. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
matt george Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 John, If you're referring to the Piper Yellow cam, which I believe you are, then I have one in my TR6 and it is excellent. My engine was built largely by Jason Wright back when he worked at TRGB and he was very complementary about it – and he wasn't wrong. Performance is excellent. Jason basically described it as a CP 150 cam but with more lift. Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Glad to hear that, I'll be fitting one soon, though mine was supplied by TR Enterprises. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JochemsTR Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) it bothers me, that TRGB only releases data sheet upon purchase. The feel and subjective perception by others is NOT a convincing selling argument. Maybe Matt and Richard can post the data here. Make a comparison to Newman 260 PH1 or Kent 280 TH5-6. Jochem Edited January 13, 2023 by JochemsTR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FatJon Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 I'm with you on this Jochem. If they won't tell me what I'm buying until I buy it then I don't want it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted January 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Here is the spec sheet. PIPER 6 CYLINDER HIGH TORQUE CAMSHAFT.docx It seems to be different to all the other Piper cams for the TR6. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) John beat me to it, mine is identical, as you would expect. As FatJon noted above, when I enquired with TRGB what the cam profile was I received a similar response. I then approached TR Enterprises who were keen to send over the spec and I bought the cam there & then. TR Enterprises tell me it's actually their own profile design. But they were quite insistent that it will only show any real benefit with some head mods, aftermarket exhaust manifold etc, all those I've already carried out. Richard. Edited January 13, 2023 by Richard71 Additional Info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 +1 for TR Enterprises, very helpful and their own kit is well developed. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 35 minutes ago, Richard71 said: John beat me to it, mine is identical, as you would expect. As FatJon noted above, when I enquired with TRGB what the cam profile was I received a similar response. I then approached TR Enterprises who were keen to send over the spec and I bought the cam there & then. TR Enterprises tell me it's actually their own profile design. But they were quite insistent that it will only show any real benefit with some head mods, aftermarket exhaust manifold etc, all those I've already carried out. Richard. Hi Richard, TR enterprises comments (mods) are exactly the same as SAH's comments 45+ years ago to me. But I would still ask the question is it a regrind or new blank. If a regrind I would not buy it. There were so many bad stories on this Forum about regrinds and Moss got caught out big time in court on that subject, they don't sell regrinds anymore??? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Hi Burce, It's ground from a new blank, see attached pic. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 55 minutes ago, Richard71 said: Hi Burce, It's ground from a new blank, see attached pic. Richard. Thanks Richard! There has obviously been a change at Piper! How does your engine perform? Did you have to adjust the M/U to suit? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Just now, astontr6 said: Thanks Richard! There has obviously been a change at Piper! How does your engine perform? Did you have to adjust the M/U to suit? Bruce. Hi Bruce, I haven't fitted this camshaft yet, so can't comment on it's performance, though I am assured it performs well throughout the rev range under all load conditions. MU adjustment, I'll be going down the EFi route at the same time as fitting this camshaft and other engine work. But as with any change of camshaft I should think the MU would be best tweaked during a rolling road session to get the best out of it. I'm sure you know that. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted January 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Richard, Did you get your cam from TR Enterprise or TRGB? I just checked with TR Enterprises and they sell the same Piper 2TY, with the same spec as TRGB. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 Does any of this help in making decisions? http://triumph.hottr6.com/CamBasics.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted January 13, 2023 Report Share Posted January 13, 2023 7 hours ago, Richard71 said: Hi Bruce, I haven't fitted this camshaft yet, so can't comment on it's performance, though I am assured it performs well throughout the rev range under all load conditions. MU adjustment, I'll be going down the EFi route at the same time as fitting this camshaft and other engine work. But as with any change of camshaft I should think the MU would be best tweaked during a rolling road session to get the best out of it. I'm sure you know that. Richard. Hi Richard! When you get your EFI going I would be interested in knowing what system you used and where the bits came from. There does not seem to be a kit of parts for EFI for a TR6 for sale by any of the known people like Emerald. A friend of mine has the Emerald system but it took him 18 months to iron out all the gremlins, I am looking for a full fit and forget system but there does not seem to be one? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DRD Posted January 14, 2023 Report Share Posted January 14, 2023 13 hours ago, astontr6 said: Hi Richard! When you get your EFI going I would be interested in knowing what system you used and where the bits came from. There does not seem to be a kit of parts for EFI for a TR6 for sale by any of the known people like Emerald. A friend of mine has the Emerald system but it took him 18 months to iron out all the gremlins, I am looking for a full fit and forget system but there does not seem to be one? Bruce. Bruce - these people claim to do this. https://www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YILMHpZY1AcmQsAbo-08Q9rEHkQ0fDaj3R1uM0xsLmoM3SqgCcHk0PRoC9DwQAvD_BwE Not tried it myself or found anyone else who has either. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieBubbles Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) Bit late to this; bought a Newman last year direct. All data freely available on the Newman website, guaranteed not a regrind, and tuned to perfection by Carl at TR Trader who being the perfectionist he is noted it returned exactly the same (to 1dp) mpg as the last one he did. Very pleased with increased positive response; very 'perky'. Edited January 15, 2023 by CharlieBubbles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 The PI system is very forgiving. Even a full race cam is relatively forgiving but it’s a matter of where in the Rev range you want to be. Bearing in mind a standard bottom end set up is mismatched to a cam that peaks at 6500rpm. There’s a balance between low down torque and to end power and fuel consumption. With the head tuning/manifold set up to put into the equation. Avoid a cam that performs in the upper range if you have a bottom end that is standard or you are unwilling to use the revs. The CP cam is a good balance so ask yourself how the alternative cam will benefit the way you drive. Higher or lower in the Rev range? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 3:29 PM, Richard71 said: Hi Bruce, I haven't fitted this camshaft yet, so can't comment on it's performance, though I am assured it performs well throughout the rev range under all load conditions. MU adjustment, I'll be going down the EFi route at the same time as fitting this camshaft and other engine work. But as with any change of camshaft I should think the MU would be best tweaked during a rolling road session to get the best out of it. I'm sure you know that. Richard. Hi Richard, If you are going for EFI, and want to use a Piper cam, you could go for the Piper RED cam TRE sell (more lift than Piper YELLOW). You will have all the driveability of a Piper YELLOW, but with more power ? Piper Yellow works very well on Lucas PI by the way. I know someone who has just fitted a 300 degree cam, which is essentially a Newman PH3 cam. He used triple webers and 123 tune dizzy, and at 6000rpm & only 700 miles on this fresh engine, it was still making power (192bhp @ flywheel), & no signs of levelling off ! It drives lovely low down, and goes when you hit the loud pedal. I have EFI on my 6, and have a Newman PH5 cam to go in. Will keep you posted on power & how I get on. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 13 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: The PI system is very forgiving. Even a full race cam is relatively forgiving but it’s a matter of where in the Rev range you want to be. Bearing in mind a standard bottom end set up is mismatched to a cam that peaks at 6500rpm. There’s a balance between low down torque and to end power and fuel consumption. With the head tuning/manifold set up to put into the equation. Avoid a cam that performs in the upper range if you have a bottom end that is standard or you are unwilling to use the revs. The CP cam is a good balance so ask yourself how the alternative cam will benefit the way you drive. Higher or lower in the Rev range? The PI system is very flexible, but becomes marginal depending on camshaft choice for sure. I used to run Lucas PI, combined with a Newman (hybrid cam)- PH2/3, with the MU calibrated by Prestige injection back in 2011. It idled beautifully, and would pull to 6500RPM +. Fantastic road manners, & made power everywhere. I know folk who have used Lucas PI with a race cam, which produced a lovely torque curve from 2000-7000rpm, & made around 225bhp @ flywheel. When used with webers (never seen this combo on EFI), you will make circa 240-250bhp (flywheel). Like anything, I guess you have to decide what you are using the car for, & whether you will benefit from some of these mods. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 11:10 PM, astontr6 said: Hi Richard! When you get your EFI going I would be interested in knowing what system you used and where the bits came from. There does not seem to be a kit of parts for EFI for a TR6 for sale by any of the known people like Emerald. A friend of mine has the Emerald system but it took him 18 months to iron out all the gremlins, I am looking for a full fit and forget system but there does not seem to be one? Bruce. Hi Bruce, I'll be using an intake manifold from Ramtech and the ECU etc I'll be getting from Classic Car Fuel Injection, both will work well together. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 On 1/14/2023 at 12:58 PM, DRD said: Bruce - these people claim to do this. https://www.classicfuelinjection.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YILMHpZY1AcmQsAbo-08Q9rEHkQ0fDaj3R1uM0xsLmoM3SqgCcHk0PRoC9DwQAvD_BwE Not tried it myself or found anyone else who has either. Cheers Darren Thanks Darren! It looks like they do the business! I shall do an evaluation visit? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarreyRT Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 On 1/13/2023 at 5:40 PM, matt george said: John, If you're referring to the Piper Yellow cam, which I believe you are, then I have one in my TR6 and it is excellent. My engine was built largely by Jason Wright back when he worked at TRGB and he was very complementary about it – and he wasn't wrong. Performance is excellent. Jason basically described it as a CP 150 cam but with more lift. Matt Great to hear the Pipe Yellow cam is a good choice. My friend is highly considering them as recommended by a mechanic. The mod projects for the TR6 will start after we installed the brake pads and wheels from 4Wheelonline onto the Wrangler and clear the garage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 I fitted a Newmans cam PH1 and was astonished how good it was.Bundles of low down torgue and after running in my freshly built engine (Emerald EFI) and on their rolling road for tuning at 3500 RPM it run out of puff. I changed the cam to PH2 and power was back all round.I would have preferred the PH1 but for some reason could not make it work. I know Shcnipple in Germany loves this cam ( PH1) and makes it work on his 2.7 engines with great success. I have changed to Jenvey Heritage Throttle bodies still on EFI and love it but still miss that PH1 though. RPM is for talking in the pub it is how it drives is more important. Regards Harry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRTOM2498PI Posted January 19, 2023 Report Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) On 1/18/2023 at 9:04 AM, harrytr5 said: I fitted a Newmans cam PH1 and was astonished how good it was.Bundles of low down torgue and after running in my freshly built engine (Emerald EFI) and on their rolling road for tuning at 3500 RPM it run out of puff. I changed the cam to PH2 and power was back all round.I would have preferred the PH1 but for some reason could not make it work. I know Shcnipple in Germany loves this cam ( PH1) and makes it work on his 2.7 engines with great success. I have changed to Jenvey Heritage Throttle bodies still on EFI and love it but still miss that PH1 though. RPM is for talking in the pub it is how it drives is more important. Regards Harry Hi Harry, I think you could make the Newman PH5 cam work with your EFI here ? A friend of mine has recently fitted a Newman PH3, but with webers and a 123 tune, and it drives beautifully, & a hell of a lot faster than his PH2 in his TR6, which feels tame in comparison ? With an ECU/management system, it could be fine tuned even further. If there is power to be found, the Emerald ECU will find it ! Cheers. Edited January 19, 2023 by TRTOM2498PI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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