Money back for power you have not used??

[Peter Cobbold]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63483668

How do they know you have reduced peak hours consumption?

My guess is they monitor it daily for your property, and calculate the benefit on the basis of reduction in that during the experimental days. If so, pile on the kWh between 4 and 7 pm every day....?

Peter

 

[AndyR100]

They (the energy companies) already have the data for household usage patterns where smart meters are installed

Edited November 4, 2022 by AndyR100

[RobH]

Really this looks like a 'come-on' to persuade people to sign up for a smart meter.  If you do, you kiss goodbye to the concept of having power on tap whenever you want it.  Maybe this is the first step towards introducing power rationing via the back door.  Welcome to the next phase of the "Great Re-set ". 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by RobH

[ntc]

Sorry but I have had a smart meter for two years and love it just wait to see your bill’s when you submit your readings.

[RobH]

You may be happy now Neil but would you still be happy if your power is turned off remotely by a software change or when your meter suddenly becomes a pre-payment one also through a remote software change ?   Both can be done by your supplier either deliberately or by mistake - and probably by a genned-up hacker too. 

I have dumb meters but I do know my usage and how much the fuels cost, and I get a monthly summary from my supplier as well so there are no surprises.  A 'smart' replacement would be no improvement on that. 

The only reason we have a fuel problem is because generations of politicians have screwed up by failing to ensure there are sufficient proper power stations (preferably Nuclear) to service the demands of an ever-increasing population.  The smart meters are just a fudge to hide that shortfall and to cover the politicians' backsides. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by RobH

[RogerH]

11 hours ago, RobH said:

You may be happy now Neil but would you still be happy if your power is turned off remotely by a software change or when your meter suddenly becomes a pre-payment one also through a remote software change ?   Both can be done by your supplier either deliberately or by mistake - and probably by a genned-up hacker too. 

I have dumb meters but I do know my usage and how much the fuels cost, and I get a monthly summary from my supplier as well so there are no surprises.  A 'smart' replacement would be no improvement on that. 

The only reason we have a fuel problem is because generations of politicians have screwed up by failing to ensure there are sufficient proper power stations (preferably Nuclear) to service the demands of an ever-increasing population.  The smart meters are just a fudge to hide that shortfall and to cover the politicians' backsides. 

 

 

+1

[PodOne]

The only smarts required is to send in a meter reading once a month on line. 
 

My mum had a smart meter that was so smart that for 8 months it was not sending the correct readings I think you can guess it was a real pain to sort out. Plus it caused her real worry and stress.

Andy

[RogerH]

We had this discussion 4/5 years ago and somebody posted that the meters were very inaccurate in favour of the supplier.

It this still the case?

 

Roger

[Peter V W]

I have a smart meter, works well. Enables me to have a cheaper tariff.

 

[Charlie D]

 

When we had this discussion previously I remember that the majority of people were against smart meters. When I mentioned that it is so easy to monitor how much gas and electricity I use with a smart meter the attitude of many people was  “I know how much electricity each of my devices use and I am quite capable of working out how much money I am spending” .

Yes, I’m sure you are, but it’s a damned sight easier just to look at a meter and have it shown to you in real time. Switch the kettle on, and you immediately see the extra cost. OK, you may say that you know the kettle is using 2kW of power. But how sure can you be of that? Have you put an ammeter in the circuit to measure the exact current that the device is using or are you just going by what it says on the label. The same for voltage going to the kettle. Is it exactly 230 volts? Have you measured it?

And if you do know the figures accurately, (and the cost per kW hour) you then need to go and get your abacus to work out the answers. (You surely won’t be using one of those modern pocket calculator things will you.)

Personally I’m happy with my smart meter. By paying attention to it I’ve saved money, and that is all I’m really bothered about.

Oh..
Just wondering.
I was working away during the UK power cuts of the 1970’s . From what I was told the electricity would be cut off for various times and there was a shortage of candles in the shops.

No smart meters then were there.
But they still managed to cut off the power.

Charlie

[Peter V W]

Charlie,

In the power cuts of the 1970’s they turned the power off at the local sub station.

I still worked a 5 day week, but 2 days with no electric!

[RobH]

There is a difference between power cuts due to deliberate strike action in the 1970s, and power shortages due to incompetent governance resulting in insufficient generating capacity.  

(Yes Charlie, I do have a clip-on ammeter which I can use to check the actual current drawn from the grid but I'm not anal enough to need to use it on a kettle.)

One thing I do have a problem with is the whole idea of the existence of differing tariffs. Why on earth should it be that neighbours who are connected to the same set of wires coming from the same generators, should pay different amounts to different 'suppliers' for the same energy used ?  The idea is insane when you look at it logically. There should be one price for everyone regardless of the metering system in use.   The idea of having competition on price just does not make any sense when the generators and transmission systems are common and inseparable.  

The system fails those who can least afford it and who end up having to pay the highest tariffs though pre-payment meters.  It is they who are effectively subsidising the lower tariffs for those who could more easily afford the variations in cost.

The so-called  'energy suppliers' are really nothing of the sort. They are just dealers who buy and sell an intangible product but who actually add nothing to the process except the final billing. They need no infrastructure other than an office and an internet connection and don't even need to be in the UK.  The word 'parasite' seems apt. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by RobH

[Peter Cobbold]

13 hours ago, RobH said:

You may be happy now Neil but would you still be happy if your power is turned off remotely by a software change or when your meter suddenly becomes a pre-payment one also through a remote software change ?   Both can be done by your supplier either deliberately or by mistake - and probably by a genned-up hacker too. 

I have dumb meters but I do know my usage and how much the fuels cost, and I get a monthly summary from my supplier as well so there are no surprises.  A 'smart' replacement would be no improvement on that. 

The only reason we have a fuel problem is because generations of politicians have screwed up by failing to ensure there are sufficient proper power stations (preferably Nuclear) to service the demands of an ever-increasing population.  The smart meters are just a fudge to hide that shortfall and to cover the politicians' backsides. 

 

 

 Agreed, plus I dread the hassle when the SM goes wrong ("computer says No" syndrome).  If they are going to correct bills for the 4-7pm period then Smart meters must have been collecting that data over the past year at least ( four seasons).  If not, and data is starting to be collected now, it should be possible to game the system by consuming as much power as possible between 4 and 7 pm.

 

[monty]

17 hours ago, RobH said:

You may be happy now Neil but would you still be happy if your power is turned off remotely by a software change or when your meter suddenly becomes a pre-payment one also through a remote software change ?   Both can be done by your supplier either deliberately or by mistake - and probably by a genned-up hacker too. 

I have dumb meters but I do know my usage and how much the fuels cost, and I get a monthly summary from my supplier as well so there are no surprises.  A 'smart' replacement would be no improvement on that. 

The only reason we have a fuel problem is because generations of politicians have screwed up by failing to ensure there are sufficient proper power stations (preferably Nuclear) to service the demands of an ever-increasing population.  The smart meters are just a fudge to hide that shortfall and to cover the politicians' backsides. 

 

 

+1

[ntc]

Note all the critics don’t have one I bet it will not belong before you will have no choice 

[RobH]

I fear you are right Neil.  I fully expect that, despite the government saying no-one will be forced to, in time we probably won't find a supplier willing to take on anyone without.  Also by law, meters have to be changed periodically for calibration and again what is the betting that no dumb meters will be available as replacements ? 

[Peter Cobbold]

SMs use 2G or 3G .  We only have Vodafone's 3G signal out here in the sticks, and that gets terminated next year. Just as well we have no SM ! 

50% of UK residences have not signed up to SMs, so roll-out is not going to be fast enough to help with the current crises.

 

[monty]

I am on a tariff that is not able to have smart meters!

[barkerwilliams]

It is difficult to turn off power these days as there are seriously sick people in residential areas with oxygen generators, dialysis machines etc which make general power cuts unacceptable. Smart meters are a step towards selective cuts hopefully ensuring less disruptive outages.  

[Misfit]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:12 PM, RobH said:

Really this looks like a 'come-on' to persuade people to sign up for a smart meter.  If you do, you kiss goodbye to the concept of having power on tap whenever you want it.  Maybe this is the first step towards introducing power rationing via the back door.  Welcome to the next phase of the "Great Re-set ". 

 

 

 

Like

[Misfit]

On 11/5/2022 at 12:20 PM, RobH said:

There is a difference between power cuts due to deliberate strike action in the 1970s, and power shortages due to incompetent governance resulting in insufficient generating capacity.  

(Yes Charlie, I do have a clip-on ammeter which I can use to check the actual current drawn from the grid but I'm not anal enough to need to use it on a kettle.)

One thing I do have a problem with is the whole idea of the existence of differing tariffs. Why on earth should it be that neighbours who are connected to the same set of wires coming from the same generators, should pay different amounts to different 'suppliers' for the same energy used ?  The idea is insane when you look at it logically. There should be one price for everyone regardless of the metering system in use.   The idea of having competition on price just does not make any sense when the generators and transmission systems are common and inseparable.  

The system fails those who can least afford it and who end up having to pay the highest tariffs though pre-payment meters.  It is they who are effectively subsidising the lower tariffs for those who could more easily afford the variations in cost.

The so-called  'energy suppliers' are really nothing of the sort. They are just dealers who buy and sell an intangible product but who actually add nothing to the process except the final billing. They need no infrastructure other than an office and an internet connection and don't even need to be in the UK.  The word 'parasite' seems apt. 

 

 

 

 

+1  Plus I tend to put a kettle on when I want a cup of tea, turn on a light when I enter a room at night and off again when I leave it, and a wife to remind me on that rare occasion I haven’t.  I don’t waste electric I use it as I need it and turn off appliances including chargers when I don’t. Why do I  need a smart meter to remind me what I am spending, and why should anyone subsidise others especially those that pay up front for their electric?

Edited November 8, 2022 by Misfit

[RobH]

1 hour ago, barkerwilliams said:

Smart meters are a step towards selective cuts hopefully ensuring less disruptive outages.  

Everyone still must be disconnected to fix faults etc, and that is the ONLY valid reason for ever cutting power to areas.   Smart meters are by design, a means to enable rationing.

 It must be a government imperative to ensure everyone has access to reliable electrical power 24/7.  It looks as though they are about to fail in that duty - through long term negligence and stupidity it seems.   

[MilesA]

Personally, I am sceptical of the value and potential (mis)use of smart meters. There is already too much documentation and control of individuals and my constant refusal to fall for EDF's blandishments to have a smart meter installed is my tiny act of resistance.

However, one benefit of the huge price rises has been to make the family realise how wasteful we were of energy when it was less expensive. We no longer heat and light rooms that are not in use. The heating is put on when needed rather than automatically. Jumpers are once again fashionable in the house and curtains are deployed. But we are not sitting around in some Dickensian scene. The same happened when we forced to have a water meter. We thought more about our water usage and changed our behaviours accordingly. There is only so much that one can do in a thermally inefficient Edwardian house so I doubt whether it all makes a material difference to our bills - but it does have some effect. No-one in the house resents this change in approach (including the 2 adult daughters still who live at home). 

Miles

[PodOne]

I wonder if there will be any rebate of the standing charges if there are to be power cuts? I bet not.

As others have said the governments of all colours have for 50 years squandered and sold out our natural resources beneath our feet to the highest bidders under the banner of a free market which now sees un unable to meet domestic demand. We don't have to worry about the Russians knocking it out we have done it ourselves.

The only way as far as I see it is more nuclear power as a base load which is 10-15 years away at least and even this it seems is beyond our ability to design, build and run it ourselves with profits going out of the UK. Shameful from a country that was at the forefront of nuclear power but we are still good for taking the worlds nuclear waste. Dirty Britain is on top here.

In short its a joke and those responsible will no doubt be very warm this winter sitting in front for their log fires.

Andy

[Peter V W]

The government could lift the moratorium on wind farms in England.

Peter