Hamish Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) I have discovered my original in car heater is leaking. will be doing a simple by-pass tomorrow so I can race on Sunday without worrying about scalding water. long term fix will be removing the heater - is it a simple job ?? and probably replace with a T7 design 3.5kw that I know Stuart recommends is that an easy fit ? Do you use the original fore and aft stays? Are there any pictures of the brackets I need to make? will the heater fan cope with the original variable fan controller ? Or visaversa (I have had a search but just need to double check up to date info) thanks Edited November 17, 2022 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) I fitted a T7 design heater to my daily driver TR2 and it works well. The only caveat is that my car runs cool in cold weather at 150degF and the heating is consequently a bit on the low side. I have a manually operated electric engine cooling fan and if I let the engine get up to 185 at idle the heater puts out a good toasty temperature. A new higher temp thermostat would solve the heating but at the downside of coping with our summer heat (As is I don't need to use the fan very often but if the engine ran at 185 I'd be putting the fan on at every lights). Installation was straighforward. I bought hoses with the 90 deg bends (TR4?? from Moss) as recommended by Stuart. I made a couple of aluminium pieces to attach the heater to the dashboard supports. I attached the heater to the pieces I made but didn't bother drilling holes to attach the pieces I made to the dashboard supports, I cable tied the pieces in place. The original heater switch works very well with the T7. For a total cost of about $300 Aus I have a satisfactory heater for our conditions. In cooler conditions with a hotter engine thermostat the T7 would be very good. Edited August 20, 2022 by John McCormack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 Hi H had the same issue some years ago fitted a T7 and used the original rheostat switch which works fine, however I’m going to install their speed controller as the lowest speed with the original rheostat is not low enough for driving when you need a constant but steady air flow up the windscreen. We did a Rally down to the FrenchAlps in the spring and it became a bit of a pain, turning it on and off repeatedly. Ill pm you some pictures of how I installed it, slightly different to Stuart’s positioning. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) Thanks John i don’t think my 89mm engine runs particularly cool except when it’s a v cold winter day like when I was running it in!! the old heater used to chuck out lots of heat have even used it as an addition radiator on some of out very hot days this year in competition. Dad used to say cook the driver not the engine !! also just wondering which way the T7 fits horizontal or vertical I see in searches Stuart does his horizontal . Another vertical I know many expert sage ones are at the New IWE but no rush it’s going to be an off season project H thanks Iain posts crossed in the ether Edited August 20, 2022 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony_C Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 Hi Hamish, Here’s my ‘alternative tuppence worth’ …. Although doubtless many will be along to dispute it is really worth quite that much … My 3A, although one of the very last off the line, must be a bit further on than yours started the same leak from within a few years ago… I bypassEd and took it out with intention to repair or replace…… However, don’t know how much sub-zero winter driving you do?…. Global warming is really coming/here!….. I found more space under the dash, no more fan bearing rattling and - importantly for ‘competition cars’ - weight saving all to be of benefit… Thus far I have been happily running without (admittedly pretty much all non-winter driving)….. I would suggest that this is not something you need to rush into as a priority?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 Thanks Tony, I appreciate your input and normally I would agree but I have been known to be out in the cold and wet so I think a replacement heater is worth doing. The T7 seems a fair price as a swap over and cheaper than the like for like replacement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony_C Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 Yup, you have got to do whatever is best for you…… However, a woolly vest and thick pair of socks would still be much more cost effective and give you substantially better power to weight ratio… Reminds me (although I cannot remember where - might have been my pal who used to work with McLaren and other F1 but now runs the race program for rich and corpulent Aston Martin owners) to get the competitive edge they specify every possible expensive option right down to paying extra for windscreen wiper blades a few grams lighter than standard…….. when they actually would be much better off not over indulging in the pre and post race ‘snacks’ and beverages… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tony_C said: Yup, you have got to do whatever is best for you…… However, a woolly vest and thick pair of socks would still be much more cost effective and give you substantially better power to weight ratio… Reminds me (although I cannot remember where - might have been my pal who used to work with McLaren and other F1 but now runs the race program for rich and corpulent Aston Martin owners) to get the competitive edge they specify every possible expensive option right down to paying extra for windscreen wiper blades a few grams lighter than standard…….. when they actually would be much better off not over indulging in the pre and post race ‘snacks’ and beverages… It’s the fat knackers that buy all the carbon parts - I bet there is a direct ratio that someone could work out ? Edited August 20, 2022 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikej Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 I fitted a modern Clayton heater element, straight fit and from the folk that made the original elements for Smiths I believe. 2.5 times the heat output, very very pleased with it. I don't think it is responsible for my slight under heating which I attribute to a modern core in the main rad or an over enthusiastic thermostat. Same hoses and a opportunity to change the scuttle tubes to stainless. MikeJ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 2 hours ago, mikej said: I fitted a modern Clayton heater element, straight fit and from the folk that made the original elements for Smiths I believe. 2.5 times the heat output, very very pleased with it. I don't think it is responsible for my slight under heating which I attribute to a modern core in the main rad or an over enthusiastic thermostat. Same hoses and a opportunity to change the scuttle tubes to stainless. MikeJ My experience of the stainless bulkhead connector tubes is that they are poorly made as the ones I had did not have a flare on both ends that the rubber hose fits on. I flared the straight end with a brake pipe flaring tool on one pair recently. Previously we silver soldered olives onto the straight pipe ends to provide a bump to stop the hose slipping off. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 20, 2022 Report Share Posted August 20, 2022 22 hours ago, Hamish said: I have discovered my original in car heater is leaking. will be doing a simple by-pass tomorrow so I can race on Sunday without worrying about scalding water. long term fix will be removing the heater - is it a simple job ?? and probably replace with a T7 design 3.5kw that I know Stuart recommends is that an easy fit ? Do you use the original fore and aft stays? Are there any pictures of the brackets I need to make? will the heater fan cope with the original variable fan controller ? Or visaversa (I have had a search but just need to double check up to date info) thanks Have you read this Hamish? I have recently fitted a T 7 heater and my installation was simple. Sat the heater on two steel straps attached to the existing front to back dash supports that the existing heater sits on. Had to drill a couple of holes for the screws but that is simple. Yes the standard rheostat works but it does not completely slow the fan motor. Ebay is awash with 'PWM 12 volt fan controllers' at under a tenner, If I get really in need I will probably buy and fit one. On full chat the fan motor of the T7 is louder than the old Smiths unit. The matrix is at the top on my installation and the fan unit is inside the 'box' This fan can also be mounted outside the box as in Stuarts photos. I connected all the water up before installing the heater unit so I could tip the matrix to bleed it remove any air lock. I bled it out with the engine running and disconnected the return pipe to the water pump at the bulkhead. The engine had only just been started so the water that flowed was tepid. The water came out of the bulkhead connector hose with a steady flow, and I just pushed the hose back on and tightened the clamp. My only criticism of the installation is that the side vents are fiddly to get at so I bought a spare vent and cut a hole in the flat plate of the heater and fitted that as an extra outlet blowing downwards. ( as an after thought I wish I had bought two and fitted them both there) If I were able to explain that to T7 I suspect they would produce a heater with those vents already fitted in the plate. Here you can see the cross strap and the extra downward facing vent. This is looking up at the heater from the LH foot well. T7 supplied the 1.25" demister hoses which are super flexible. - fit on the screen vent first as they are a tight fit there. And yes the heater water hoses do both go to the left foot well bulkhead on my car as I fitted HS6 carbs in 1976 and the float chamber of the rear carb is too close to the bulkhead on the right unless I made a special bulkhead heater hose adapter - It was easier to fit the twin heater adapter on the left side, from a TR4/5/6. That said T7 do some rather nice billet aluminium bulkhead connectors but I fear the price could run away with itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted August 29, 2022 Report Share Posted August 29, 2022 Hamish why not try a rad additive like Bars leak if it is weeping from the core ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 29, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2022 Roy I did consider that as I did add radweld to the system AND bypass the heater. it was a passive leak cold so must have got worse hot and under pressure even if only 4lb. I just didn’t want a days motorsport ruined with a heater blowing on a run and spewing hot water etc everywhere inside. the bypass method gives me time to finish the season and find a leisurely solution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 29, 2022 Report Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Hamish said: Roy I did consider that as I did add radweld to the system AND bypass the heater. it was a passive leak cold so must have got worse hot and under pressure even if only 4lb. I just didn’t want a days motorsport ruined with a heater blowing on a run and spewing hot water etc everywhere inside. the bypass method gives me time to finish the season and find a leisurely solution. Agree completely i had a heater pipe fail at motorway speeds in a Triumph 2500 and the sequence very rapidly went. What’s that dreadful antifreeze smell? Why have the windows fogged up? Ouch. There’s Boiling water on my clutch leg. Swerve to hard shoulder of motorway, braking using a crooked right leg to avoid the jet of boiling water squirting into the left side of the driver’s footwell. Edited August 29, 2022 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 29, 2022 Report Share Posted August 29, 2022 Any one thinking of fitting an original heater I have one for sale at £25.00 plus postage. The matrix has a weep like Hamish’s so is not fully water tight. Some one with a soldering iron could fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 12 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Any one thinking of fitting an original heater I have one for sale at £25.00 plus postage. The matrix has a weep like Hamish’s so is not fully water tight. Some one with a soldering iron could fix it. From experience they are not economically repairable. The corrosion will have eaten out much more than one area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dwaters Posted August 31, 2022 Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Hi Hamish I fitted a Clayton XA1203 heater to my 3A and it does blow a direct-able, very noticeably warm, almost hot stream of air out. It came with a two speed control knob which when painted gloss black doesn’t look too out of place (left of the O/D switch in photo). The heater sits on the existing dashboard stays, is more bulky than the original heater and you can see it. It needed new heating tubing and I used machined aluminium bulkhead fittings from Demon Tweaks for peace of mind as they have a flange on both ends. As I couldn’t fit the standard heater valve at the back of the cylinder head I fitted an inline Taxi TX1 heater valve under the dash, controlled with an aftermarket bowden cable (under O/D switch in photo) . I’ll send you a PM with the heater dimensions. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted August 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2022 Cheers David. Much appreciated. pm replied to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teher Posted September 1, 2022 Report Share Posted September 1, 2022 (edited) My heating has obviously been repaired and rather summarily, but it works very well! By removing the glove box, the operation is easy… Edited September 1, 2022 by Teher Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted November 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) Update for my Birthday I have bought the 3.5kw T7 Design heater. https://www.t7design.co.uk/3-5kw-lightweight-heater-with-side-vents-12v-187-d1e-05a.html together with some new demister duct. called the company yesterday at about 11am and DPD delivered it before 9 this morning. I managed the urge to open the box - knowing if I did I would have to go into the garage “offer it up” to see the fit (not removed the old one yet) and I wouldn’t end up getting to work !!! still not decided on orientation yet. anyone bolted it to the bulk head vertically? I’m wondering if fitting horizontally above the dash fore and aft bars hamper access to the vents ? hopefully I’ll keep a bit of a log on the job here. ps if you are thinking of getting one their web site or their eBay shop do it now as prices are due to rise imminently!! and they do loads of accessories not just these heaters. Edited November 17, 2022 by Hamish Add ps Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 My two penny worth. Fitting neatly above the front to back bars causes access difficulty to the footwell outlet nozzles. I have added a lower outlet in the flat face which works a treat. Should have added two and blanked the side outlets. Will re visit and make new plate with two nozzles in the future. when you are installing Before fitting in place connect the water system run the engine and tip the heater about so the air is bled from the matrix. It may get a bubble in the matrix otherwise due to the orientation of the water connections. I simply release the return water hose at the block pipe to bleed out the heater matrix while the heater assy is sat on the floor with outlets uppermost Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted November 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: when you are installing Thanks for hints and tips. it’ll be a while before I have a weekend to fit it. This coming weekend is the clubs sprint and hillclimbs championship awards dinner - can’t miss that then it’s a Devon trip to see my mum. but I may try the odd evening but I don’t like the cold dark evenings upside down in the footwell whilst in a single garage. I know. Bl@@dy luxury …….. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 The way we fit them works really well and gives plenty of room everywhere especially behind the main istrument cluster. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 17, 2022 Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) What it looks like in the hole. My heater has the fan unit inside the casing pulling air though the matrix. Which makes it less tall than when it is external and pushing air through the matrix and into the casing. (See also Stuart’s photo) PS Did you also buy the demist hosing? It’s lovely flexible stuff. Edited November 17, 2022 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted November 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, stuart said: The way we fit them works really well and gives plenty of room everywhere especially behind the main istrument cluster. Stuart. Stuart can you still easily get your hand on both the adjustable vents past the fore/aft supports to open and close them etc do you have any fully assembled pics ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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