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One of the rear hubs on my 4A squeks when driving slowly. On inspection there is slight play in the bearing. I have TR6 Manual and am assuming its the same proceedure to replace the bearings. The manual mentions several special tools and the fact that the whole shaft has to be removed. Is this a job that can be done at home without the special tools?

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Hi Phil,

you will need a special tool to separate the hub.

This an area where the special tool really is needed and  there is no easy work round.

If you do it wrong you will bend the flange on the hub and will knacker it big time.

How old is your hub and how many miles.  There have been quite a few serious failures recetly as the age and mileage buids up on the TR6 fleet.

Consider buying a NEW Moss hub or get yours professionally rebuilt BUT do fit a NEW stub axle. That is the part that breaks.

 

Roger

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Phil = one of our club members had an annoying squeak on the rear of his 4A and both he and a local garage tried in vain to find the source. When he came to our next meeting, we all laughed as he squeaked into the car park. A couple of days later, no-one was laughing when his nearside wheel parted company from the car at 70 mph in the outside lane of the A12 dual carriageway.

Very luckily, he managed to control the situation and get to the kerb - his hub had snapped clean off - this was a reconditioned hub from a well known TR Supplier, purchased within the previous 12 months and with less than 1500 miles driven on it .

Moral of this story - don't take ANY chances with your rear IRS driveline - you can't see a cracked hub from an external perspective and its not easy to see when stripped either, so be warned!

Cheers Rich

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I guess many here are cringing for they know that I'm yet again going to post these Stag hub failures (they use the "Innsbruck" rear suspension just like the independent suspension TRs and the big Triumph saloons) and although Stag owners are not the most aggressive drivers in general (think Nun with a bad back wearing slippers) these hubs were both sold to a Stag owner after they were reconditioned by a specialist, this is what happened to the first,

1625772611_StagHubfailure.jpg.58424898171da93f6b955df769fb6d45.jpg

 

and then the second

1560671445_StagHubfailure2.jpg.d37c19c0c4d504a01bd6e60ea67a54f2.jpg

 

Within 18 months for both. As Rich has said and RogerH who is the bees knees man for non destructive testing these 50 year old parts are ...dying. Unknown past exertions up kerbs and chasing E types have taken their toll of the metal and unless you can get to the surface of the parts (often within the structure like in the hub photo) you can't test it. Cracks lurk within and often the excess force used to strip the hubs (20 ton press and a heat torch) just take it further awaiting somebody to then make the final test of now what we call destructive testing...you driving it.

Replace the hubs with new components which include new stub axles and forget the nightmare that may come visiting on a summers day at 70mph on a motorway.

Mick Richards

PS: I think these photos and a description of what and how they happen should be made a "sticky" at the front of any of the IRS forums, it will save constant rehashing of this subject and maybe save somebody who doesn't have the patience to search for it.

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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Hello Mick,
I agree with you.
As soon as such a wheel bearing unit has been opened and then assembled incorrectly ... the bomb ticks.
Fortunately, there are good alternatives. The clubs just have to make this subject much more often and more emphatically.
Fortunately, there have been no fatal accidents.

Best wishes
Ralf

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Adrian, you need to start a new thread for this question. as I presume you are referring to a live axle 4, not an IRS 4A.

Jerry

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23 hours ago, Phil Read said:

One of the rear hubs on my 4A squeks when driving slowly. On inspection there is slight play in the bearing. I have TR6 Manual and am assuming its the same proceedure to replace the bearings. The manual mentions several special tools and the fact that the whole shaft has to be removed. Is this a job that can be done at home without the special tools?

Phil personally I wouldn't drive it until you get to the bottom of the cause, my 6 had an annoying squeak from the rear audible at low speeds, when I took it to Enginuity for them to have a look at, the cause was as per Mick's photo, my hub had cracked 3/4 of the way round the flange, so the wheel was about to part company with the car. When I had the car rebuilt I went for these http://www.vessey-classic-car-services.co.uk/quaife-products.htm#.XzEOLC2ZMwc not cheap and they do come with their own issues but at least I know that all the wheels should stay on the car.

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Not to diverge from the topic, but are front stub axles susceptible to this type of failure? I know suppliers offer front stub axle “upgrade” kits, or are they to solve a different problem?

thank

Jim

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Posted (edited)

I have removed the rear drum but you cannot see anything. The bearing is quiet when the wheel is spun although there is about 1mm or less end play. How do you know the hub is failing, apart from removing the complete shaft and stripping down? If I have remove the shaft and hub I might as well fit a new hub unit when it is off just to be on the safe side. As I am strapped for cash at the moment as all my money is going ito restoring a 3A, I may go for a reconditioned rear hub unit only as I fit new UJs to the shaft last year. Do these reconditioned units come from the same source or can some rsuppliers be recommended above others? The only motoring I do in the car is leisurely touring.

Edited by Phil Read
grammar mistake
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Hi Phil,

reconditioned hubs are as cheap as chips. That is a clue to the quality.

The part that breaks is more than £100 over the counter.

What reconditioner in their right mind would fit a new stub axle and then charge less for the hub than the axle on its own.

Why waste money on a poor rebuild when that money would help buy the proper job.

Surely the TR3 rebuild can wait.

 

Roger

-

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47 minutes ago, Phil Read said:

I have removed the rear drum but you cannot see anything. The bearing is quiet when the wheel is spun although there is about 1mm or less end play. How do you know the hub is failing, apart from removing the complete shaft and stripping down? If I have remove the shaft and hub I might as well fit a new hub unit when it is off just to be on the safe side. As I am strapped for cash at the moment as all my money is going ito restoring a 3A, I may go for a reconditioned rear hub unit only as I fit new UJs to the shaft last year. Do these reconditioned units come from the same source or can some rsuppliers be recommended above others? The only motoring I do in the car is leisurely touring.

Phil, I guess you may not have read this post, I've taken out the upsetting pictures of destroyed hubs to save space

" these hubs were both sold to a Stag owner after they were reconditioned by a specialist, this is what happened to the first,  and then the second , Within 18 months for both. "

The very act of taking these hubs apart to replace wearing bearings...destroys their integrity as time served units. Having survived 50 years of use and abuse and for all we know having been subjected to a 20 to press and an oxy accet torch once or twice before in their lives, the final act of splitting the hubs apart can likely input such stress into them that stress cracks are formed inside...where you can't crack test for them. They stand a much greater chance of failing in use...by you.

Check out the Triumph Stag forum reading it is free and there you'll find several postings from users who have had the hubs fail...in use, luckily they have not had a car inversion (as we have) but as previously said they tend to drive somewhat less aggressively, I suppose you could call it leisurely touring, ...ring a bell ? There is at least one specialist parts supplier that now refuse to supply reconditioned hubs because they can't be certain of their safety provenance which is a thoroughly responsible attitude.

Mick Richards 

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi Phil,

reconditioned hubs are as cheap as chips. That is a clue to the quality.

The part that breaks is more than £100 over the counter.

What reconditioner in their right mind would fit a new stub axle and then charge less for the hub than the axle on its own.

Why waste money on a poor rebuild when that money would help buy the proper job.

Surely the TR3 rebuild can wait.

 

Roger

-

I would not call £150+ as cheap as chips.

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Re: New hubs Where are the parts made and where are they assembled? I am in two other classic car clubs and a major problem with "New" compomemts/parts is that they are made in India/China etc. It is a fact that the quality, in many cases, is not up to original manufacturers spec and parts either don't fit or may fail after a short period. In some cases there is no choice they are only made in say India and because of this reconditioned units done in the UK are recommended. New may be at least twice the price as a recon unit but are they twice as good. Reading reviews about new hubs and shafts would suggest not.

Going back to my last post is it possible to tell how bad a hub is without strippng it down?

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Hi Phil,

I understand that the Moss stub axle is made in the UK as is the hub body. The bearings are quality branded and made where ever.

They are assembled in their workshop in Feltham (Hanworth to be precise)  I don't know where Bastuk do theirs.

Apart from noise and play you can't really tell how bad they are without disassembly

 

Roger

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Thanks for that Roger. I am just trying to weigh up options. I have been cought out by new non original parts before. Last year I drove my newly restored 1949 Land Rover to the National in Norfolk. The new parts, apart from body panels which are made in the UK, that let me down  were Distributor, fuel pump and voltage regulator all made in India  I broke down 12 times in 260 miles. Luckily I was in convoy and replacing with used second hand parts kept me going. I have done 2000 + miles since and never been let down. Brake parts are another issue with Master cylinders failing and new wheel cylinders weeping. I will go for a new hub as recommended and hope its ok.

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Hi Phil,

prior to fitting mine I ran them up on my lathe at apprx 30mph for 20 minutes.   One hub had a naughty issue and the other ran fine but did get very warm/hot.

Moss took back the hub with the issue and Adam, in their workshop, stripped it down.

A fault could not be found. So ALL the bearings got binned and the hub was rebuilt with new bearings. 

I ran this on my lathe and it ran exactly the same as the first.

When I fitted them to the car I checked them every two weeks for nearly six months. They got no stiffer and there is not play.

Three years and 40,000 miles later and they are still working well.

Roger

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  • 2 months later...

Don't be a fool, get new hubs and axles and if you can't afford them park the car until you can. It may not just be you who suffers but other road users. Refurbished are just old high milage ones cleaned up and could break before you get out your driveway.   The L/H stub axle broke just under the edge of the outer bearing where it couldn't be seen. It felt like a flat tyre, slowed down to about 80kph and there was a loud bang,the car(TR4a)went sideways and rolled 1 and a half times, lucky I had a rollbar or I would not be writing this. Spent 7 weeks in hospital and now have two hands that are not a lot of use any more and a car that is going to take some time to repair. My purchased brother has a TR6 which he immediately pulled the hubs off and found 1 hub flange with the boss broken off like in the photo and the stub axle cracked and ready to part company on the right sides its off the road now until new hubs can be obtained. I have already purchased new C/V joint driveshafts and hubs from Rimmers which are waiting for my hands to start working.

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