Ocheye Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) My car is fitted with virtually new Avon 175/65 R15 on 5.5 J wires . It has sports springs and the upper wishbones have been modified for negative camber (Not sure how many degrees). Although it drives and corners well, it sits very low and low speed steering is very heavy. I would like to use standard size tyres (165/80 15). I have good reports on the Nankang Econex NA-1 165/80 R15 T (87). Has anyone used these? I'm on a pretty tight budget (I'm pretty tight anyway). I could also revert to standard springs as speed humps are a nightmare where I live. I could leave the wishbones as they are with standard springs and taller narrower tyres or am I opening a can of worms handling wise or tyre wear wise? I'd be interested to hear your views Andy Edited December 19, 2019 by Ocheye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Hi Andy, have a look here. https://www.camskill.co.uk/m53b0s408p0/Car_Tyres_-_MPV_Tyres_-_People_Carrier_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_165_80_15_165_80R15_R15_inch_-_165_15_165R15 The vredstein is a very good tyre. Vredstein also do a very good bugdet tyre (T-Trak 2) but they look out of stock at the mo. Get your camber sorted Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Or https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/vredestein-t-trac-2-165-80r15-87t Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 I would initially have a wheel alignment done at a dedicated garage. How much negative camber do you have? Taller tyres will not help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Has someone removed the alloy spacers (107682), which sit above the spring ? Without these, the car will sit very low indeed. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Taller tyres and standard springs will help my ground clearance issue. Narrower tyres will assist with the heavier steering. The big question is how will the reduction in the degree of negative camber affect the steering. I will have to get the camber measured (if I can find anyone locally to do it) and see how that relates to original specs. I believe that the specs changed during the run, possibly with the introduction of radials which prefer some negative camber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 The spacers are there Ian. Whether or not they are correct, I don't know. Some 25-30 years ago a previous owner started to modify the suspension for racing though the car never made it to the track and the subsequent owner (27 years) restored the car to use on the road but some of the mods obviously remained Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 At the moment the distance from the ground to the underside of the anti-roll bar shackles is about 70mm (2 3/4") Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Not very good photos showing existing negative camber Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ocheye said: Not very good photos showing existing negative camber YOU nearside wheel looks to have more camber than the offside. It is quite easy to measure your own camber. Put the car on a flat, level surface. Make your self a 3, 4, 5 TRiangle - this will give your a rightangle. Pace the triangle close to the wheel. Measure the distance beteern the top rim and the triangle and then the bottom rim. Do the trig and you then have angle. Unladen 0 go for 0' to 0.5' - you do not need a lot of camber. Luckily you do not need to do the back wheels. Roger Edited September 18, 2019 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 That camber looks a bit much for a roadgoing TR4. More like 2/3degrees rather than the preferred 0,5 degree which is barely noticeable to the naked eye When I introduced 1,75 degrees negative camber to my TR3 ( they need a bit more than the TR4) it certainly made the steering a lot heavier. With regard to the ride height check that the lower wishbones are the right way up. Reversing them lowers the car considerably (and upsets the camber gain) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Offside camber look fine to me, but nearside way too much. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 4 hours ago, RogerH said: YOU nearside wheel looks to have more camber than the offside. It is quite easy to measure your own camber. Put the car on a flat, level surface. Make your self a 3, 4, 5 TRiangle - this will give your a rightangle. Pace the triangle close to the wheel. Measure the distance beteern the top rim and the triangle and then the bottom rim. Do the trig and you then have angle. Unladen 0 go for 0' to 0.5' - you do not need a lot of camber. You may find you have far too many spacers on the lower wish bones. Luckily you do not need to do the back wheels. Roger Thanks Roger. We are going to measure the camber next week. It is definitely greater on the nearside. We will start with trying standard upper wishbones and see what happens and work from there. Seemingly it has standard early TR4 springs with spacers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Lebro said: Offside camber look fine to me, but nearside way too much. Bob. Looks that way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Drewmotty said: That camber looks a bit much for a roadgoing TR4. More like 2/3degrees rather than the preferred 0,5 degree which is barely noticeable to the naked eye When I introduced 1,75 degrees negative camber to my TR3 ( they need a bit more than the TR4) it certainly made the steering a lot heavier. With regard to the ride height check that the lower wishbones are the right way up. Reversing them lowers the car considerably (and upsets the camber gain) We'll be checking that too. It is possible that the PO put them on upside down Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 From your pics...no wonder the steering is terrible and road clearance is poor. Short or grossly under rated front springs, and/or lack of spacers are the fault.. Fit new standard rated [not uprated] springs first, somewhere in the range of 270-320lb. If the ride height is good, then have wheel alignment done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Recently had laser alignment done, really to check the toe-in but found the rear camber/castor/toe needed adjusting with the shims & found the front camber was 3 degrees adverse on offside & around 1.5 on near side. Could not adjust the offside as there were no shims present to remove so put a couple of shims in the near side to bring it the same (3 degrees negative). Toe in is 1/16th. Car seems to drive ok & feels pretty well the same as it did before adjustment. I guess the front tyres may wear a little more with 3 degrees adverse but as my tyres time expire before they wear out I can live with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Surely there has to be something seriously wrong to give that much negative camber Monty? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 Back to Tyres I used a set of TTrac2 for the Liege Brescia Liege rally in July. They were excellent, good in wet and dry, great fuel economy, nice feel. Best deal at the time was Demon Tweeks. Currently £43 incl Vat including delivery on 4. No association just a very satisfied customer. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 2 hours ago, iain said: Back to Tyres I used a set of TTrac2 for the Liege Brescia Liege rally in July. They were excellent, good in wet and dry, great fuel economy, nice feel. Best deal at the time was Demon Tweeks. Currently £43 incl Vat including delivery on 4. No association just a very satisfied customer. Iain Are the TTracs structurally different to the Vred Sprint Classics? (Just curious as I now have Sprint Classics on my car but £43 for the Ttracs is obvs. pretty amazing and I might consider them for my other set of wheels.) Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quicksilver Posted September 19, 2019 Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 (edited) Nigel, The T-Tracs are different from build structure (normal use) , Sprint Classic is a higher quality rate of sport/ tire/ compound that they use for it. (and different sidewalls construction). Marcel. Edited September 19, 2019 by Quicksilver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 To answer your question Nigel, perhaps call Tyremen in Hull, they are extremely well informed re the Vred products. I have Snow Trac and T TRac tyres, both feel very similar, with the exception that the Snowtrac is less happy on warm greasy damp surfaces. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 I have T Trac 2s and Sprint Classics on different sets of wheels and cant tell the difference from the driving seat during 'press on' road runs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Thanks Marcel, Iain and Andrew. Good intel. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ocheye Posted September 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Demon Tweaks seem to be out of stock at the moment with Vred T Trac tyres. They seem to tick my boxes. I want comfort together with decent roadholding but I'm not as fast a driver as I used to be. Probably most importantly they are very reasonably priced considering I am removing a perfectly good set of Avon tyres (albeit the wrong size) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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