Agrace Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi All I've bought an uprated waterpump for my 1967 TR4A as well as a new pully (standard wide belt). It's a bold-on and not a press-on. However, I can't get the damn thing on the shaft even without the key. Any ideas? Should I bake the pulley in my oven to heat it up (when the wife is not looking of course)? Thanks Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Andrew ~ Did you get the pump and pulley from the same source? The pulley should be an easy slide-on fit. (obviously!). If I were you I'd contact the supplier. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agrace Posted January 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Tom Yes, both either from either Moss or Rimmer. I'll have to check and contact them. Thanks Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hello Andrew, Don’t forget that if you go for the heating up method, and the pulley ends up too far back, or too far forwards, you may not be able to get it off again for a second try. Charlie D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Charlie D is quite right there ~ Send the parts back to the supplier. Tom. Edited January 15, 2018 by Fireman049 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Andrew, we are spoilt for choice. Too many different parts. They are not necessary wrong but incompatible. DO NOT heat/freeze the parts together. Get the correct parts You may find the uprated pump is rubbish. The standard pump works well. But you must calculate the depth of the vanes into the body. Some vanes are short - not good. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monty Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 More junk again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I'm afraid you're right monty ~ The TR world is being swamped with rubbish! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Hi Folks, before they are condemned it needs to be found what the problem is. You can get parallel shaft with a key or tapered shafts. If they have been mixed then they will not fit. However I am fully aware of the wonderous cock-ups that are possible. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Before we get too carried away with criticising modern repro parts . . . . . Last week I was juggling a box full of water pumps, pulleys etc looking to select the right items for two engine rebuilds- all pukka Stanpart component, new and used, from back in the day. All wide belt, obviously. Apart from parallel and tapered shafts, I discovered that of three pumps with pulleys already fitted, once stripped for inspection none were interchangeable . . . . . no question about which pump went with which pulley ! Now quite how someone like Moss copes with that sort of dilemma is an open question . . . . and I'd suggest that the answer is to make the fit a little on the tight side such that it can be reamed out if necessary. After all, there's not much can be done if the pulley is loose and spins on the shaft now, is there ? All of which brings back memories of helping in Uncle Tug's garage as a lad, and the occasional explosions from Uncle along the lines of " It's Stan Bl**dy Part again, clenching his bl**dy bum cheeks, bring me the *rs* borer and I'll roger the queer b*st*rd . . . . " Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) Hi All I've bought an uprated waterpump for my 1967 TR4A as well as a new pully (standard wide belt). It's a bold-on and not a press-on. However, I can't get the damn thing on the shaft even without the key. Any ideas? Should I bake the pulley in my oven to heat it up (when the wife is not looking of course)? Thanks Andrew Have you fitted the pump yet? If not do a bit of measuring The depth from the pump mounting face to the machined surface in the pump housing. The length of the old pump vanes from pump mounting face to vane depth/tip The length of the New uprated pump vanes from pump mounting face to vane depth/tip Subtract the pump vane length from the pump housing depth and you get the tip running clearance - you are seeking a clearance of about 0.010" -0.015" Any more and the pump is stirring rather than pumping. The cheap 'uprated' pumps have a running clearance near 0.080" - not an improvement at all, in terms of pump efficiency. Peter W Edited January 15, 2018 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agrace Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Thanks everyone for your feedback. Seems this was a schoolboy error. I bought the pump from Moss and then later inadvertently the pulley from Rimmer. I've ordered a compatible pulley from Moss to hopefully solve the problem. Thought these things would be interchangeable. I thought every bit of extra cooling I could get would be good with an uprated pump (while I had the head off). Together with a radiator cowl and existing vented wings, I should hopefully be able to stick with the standard fan setup. Regards Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Problem is Andrew, 75% of the time the 4 pot runs too cold and maybe 10-25% of time it needs a little help so the best solution is throw the original fan and extension away and fit a narrow belt conversion with an electric fan. A standard pump with a rebuilt Rad will be fine. Really depends on whether you want a car that looks original or one that's driveable come what on modern roads. Leaving the building now ???? Regards Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Problem is Andrew, 75% of the time the 4 pot runs too cold and maybe 10-25% of time it needs a little help so the best solution is throw the original fan and extension away and fit a narrow belt conversion with an electric fan. A standard pump with a rebuilt Rad will be fine. Really depends on whether you want a car that looks original or one that's driveable come what on modern roads. Leaving the building now Regards Chris Or even keep the standard wide belt and pulley but fit an electric fan! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 The wide belt was fine for Ferguson tractor (limited to 2000 rpm) and Vanguard (seldom would these have exceeded 4000 rpm), but not really fit for a TR which is easily capable of 5000 rpm and more. Not only that, but, as had been stated so often, replacing a broken wide belt can be a pig of a job. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agrace Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks all, but cannot bring myself to dump £200 on an electric fan. Gary at TRGB recons standard fan works fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agrace Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I have a 92 Degree thermostat. Is that standard and effective? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I have a 92 Degree thermostat. Is that standard and effective? Bit on the high side 86C more effective, I run a wide belt still and dont have any overheating issues with a TR6 plastic fan and a proper header tank. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 ...75% of the time the 4 pot runs too cold and maybe 10-25% of time it needs a little help... Maybe in the UK! Around here, with stop-and-go driving-season temperatures over 32°C for weeks on end, my wet-liner four struggles to stay cool. Over the next few weeks I'll install one of Mark Macy's "Hurricane" fans on my car. It'll be interesting to see how this does. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Looks promising! Without a doubt a lot more effective. There's a fair chance that this will be as effective as an electric fan. Most important is off course the 'stationary' situation. Menno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Maybe in the UK! Around here, with stop-and-go driving-season temperatures over 32°C for weeks on end, my wet-liner four struggles to stay cool. Over the next few weeks I'll install one of Mark Macy's "Hurricane" fans on my car. It'll be interesting to see how this does. Is this building in something else to go wrong - ie the fan clutch - are they standard from some other USA built car? If not it could get pricey when it decides to fail. Or is this just a plastic fan and adaptor to fit on the front crank extension? - no thermal clutch at all. Here is some reading - http://www.haydenauto.com/Featured%20Products-Fan%20Clutches%20and%20Fan%20Blades/Content.aspx Peter W Edited January 17, 2018 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) It's just a metal hub to hold the nylon blades, Peter. No clutch. I agree a clutch would be more complexity than needed or desired! Here's a different image showing the metal hub and plastic blades. Edited January 18, 2018 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks all, but cannot bring myself to dump £200 on an electric fan. Gary at TRGB recons standard fan works fine. You could get an electric fan from a modern car from a scrappy. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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