RogerH Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Stuart, this would be a grand solution, except I have a repro pump with no lever. However I shall open the float chambers and add fuel from above. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Stuart, this would be a grand solution, except I have a repro pump with no lever. However I shall open the float chambers and add fuel from above. Roger If you need a proper one for rebuild by David Davies let me know as I have bought up a few for just that purpose. FOC to you of course. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 This explains it pretty well Charlie: http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/cam-assembly-lube I have used both Kent cam lube and Penrite cam assembly lube plus in the past Graphogen. http://www.graphogen.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=644920 25 years ago all Cox and Buckles rebuilt TR engines were assembled using Graphogen, and lubricated with Sunoco 20/50, I do not recall warranty being an issue on any engines. Do Graphogen contradict Penrite when they they say ? < > Where can it be used? Graphogen can be used on all working surfaces of an engine during assembly, thereby giving the full benefit of the colloidal graphite to the engine parts right from the start. All internal surfaces of moving parts – especially cylinder walls, pistons, bearings, crankshafts, valve stems, camshafts etc can be coated with a liberal layer of Graphogen. When Penrite say < > Cam Assembly Lube contains a tacky additive so it effectively sticks to surfaces whilst the engine is being built and therefore provides a far superior initial lubrication compared with standard engine oil that can run off the parts during the assembly. Cam Assembly Lube has also been used most satisfactorily in veteran engines with exposed valves and valve springs as a means of protection against rust and corrosion whilst the vehicle is not being used. Note- It should not be used on pistons as the graphite may hamper the bedding in process. Here's fun-https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-1933/42/colloidal-graphite Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel C Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 by the time I was about 17 I had already built 4 A series engines and thought I knew my way around and could always improve on the basics I was taught ...yea I had a real teacher......, at school no less! So on my next build (which for those interested was boring out to 1380, straight cut box etc etc) I decided to use STP on all moving parts as I assembled it so it would move freely, and it did...for awhile. I always ran an engine for about 300 miles, changed the oil, 500 miles, change the oil then 1000 and then give it some wellie! After about 2500 miles it was using more oil than a Balti house and the noise from the internals was far from good. I stripped it down and the wear was really something to behold. I think the STP really did do its stuff on the initial start up but then didn't allow it to bed/run in. Then when I gave it some beans is just about when it had been flushed through enough to start bedding in......so I built another one and another one...and then started to use my right foot a little less..... I use Valvoline VR1 20/50, it seems to have reduce burn-off and performs well IMHO. One last note. An old neighbour of mine who worked up at the Austin always used to say you should tap the mains/big end caps etc with a hammer as you torque them up? I did do this and found when it was assembled it did turn by hand a lot easier....anyone else do this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Folks, some good news and some bad news. Firstly as Spock would say - 'It runs Jim but not as we know it.' The engine runs and I have done the 20 minutes at 2000 - 3000 rpm It sounded good but with the occasional missed beat. Reducing the tickover to below 1000rpm causes it to stall. At 1200 - 1500rpm I measured the spark timing at apprx 10' BTDC At this tickover pressing the accelerator cause the revs to pick up very slowly until about 1500 and then it races away. I would have thought at 2500rpm the spark timing would be more advanced that 10 oe 12 degree's Is there a degree to RPM graph anywhere, In setting the valve timing I used the Moss instructions and have been assured they are good. Find TDC on the crank Set crank to installation angle - 108' (90 + 18) Set #1 INLET cam lobe to TDC Couple crank to cam with the chain. All very simple but is it correct Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Just checked the Moss instructions, & it does sound to be correct - 108° after TDC - No.1 inlet fully open. Ign timing sounds a bit retarded though - norm would be 10° BTDC at below 1000 RPM ie tick over. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I'm sure the ever-helpful Martin Jay (Distributor Doctor) would check your figures. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Hi Folks, some good news and some bad news. Firstly as Spock would say - 'It runs Jim but not as we know it.' The engine runs and I have done the 20 minutes at 2000 - 3000 rpm It sounded good but with the occasional missed beat. Reducing the tickover to below 1000rpm causes it to stall. At 1200 - 1500rpm I measured the spark timing at apprx 10' BTDC At this tickover pressing the accelerator cause the revs to pick up very slowly until about 1500 and then it races away. I would have thought at 2500rpm the spark timing would be more advanced that 10 oe 12 degree's Is there a degree to RPM graph anywhere, In setting the valve timing I used the Moss instructions and have been assured they are good. Find TDC on the crank Set crank to installation angle - 108' (90 + 18) Set #1 INLET cam lobe to TDC Couple crank to cam with the chain. All very simple but is it correct Roger 2000 RPM about 16 degrees advance plus whatever you have set as static using Lucas 40795 distributor in my TR3 - This is crank degrees not distributor. Standard TR4 distributor is fully advanced by 2000 rpm according to my test. The guff about thick and thin is testing spare springs I had to hand to find outcomes. Cheers Peter W attached pdf distributor tests.pdf Edited January 12, 2018 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Bob, I shall advance it a little tomorrow. Ho Ian, spoke to Martin earlier and suggested more advance needed. Hi Pete, your graphs suggest that some advance would help. Also the rocker gaps are over size at present 0.018" initial setting compared to 0.013" final setting. This would also retard the ignition a little. So tomorrow I shall reset the tappets (hot), advance the ignition and give it a blast. One thing that did happen was that I had a couple of front fires when trying to start. A front fire is like a back fire but out of the carbs. Is this significant !!! I bet it is. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR NIALL Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Hi Bob, I shall advance it a little tomorrow. Ho Ian, spoke to Martin earlier and suggested more advance needed. Hi Pete, your graphs suggest that some advance would help. Also the rocker gaps are over size at present 0.018" initial setting compared to 0.013" final setting. This would also retard the ignition a little. So tomorrow I shall reset the tappets (hot), advance the ignition and give it a blast. One thing that did happen was that I had a couple of front fires when trying to start. A front fire is like a back fire but out of the carbs. Is this significant !!! I bet it is. Roger It is if the Garage go’s up in a Puff of Smoke,No Smoke without Fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Did you retime the distributor after or during your #1 valve doings? Front firing sounds awful like an ignition timing problem. Edited January 12, 2018 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Hi Pete, the dizzy was timed after everything had been done to the cam. It appeared to go into the right place and point at #1 push rod tube. I shall give it some fine tuning tomorrow. I think all the tolerances are adding up to push it too far one way. Roger Edited January 13, 2018 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hi Folks, I have had a play this morning and found that with #1 piston at TDC and both valves closed the rotor arm is 1/2 cam drive tooth clockwise from #1 push rod. I tried to reposition the rotor arm but the next best position is 1/2 cam drive tooth anti clockwise anti clockwise from #1 push rod. The crank and cam were set up quite accurately together. It ended up apprx 1/2 cam sprocket out. This equates to 1/4 cam sprocket tooth at the dizzy. This does not account for the error - if there is one. So with the rotor arm pointing just anti clockwise of the #1 push rod tube the dizzy will be retarded. If I simply rotate the dizzy clockwise should this bring it back to where it needs to be? I shall fire her up and have a fiddle. Should a Kent TT1104N road cam set up the same as a stock item or should the dizzy have to be adjusted.? Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) Yes, just rotate the dizzy - hook up a strobe, & aim for 10° BTDC at as low (as you can get) tickover. Unless the gear which drives oil pump & dizzy on the cam is in exactly the same position relative to the lobes as the original cam then the ign timing will be different. Bob. Edited January 13, 2018 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Thanks Bob, if it goes wrong it's your fault Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 It's a fair cop Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hi Bob, you were lucky this time Rotated the dizzy CCW and it became much happier. Adjusted the hot tappets to 0.013" and it sounds very good. There are no odd 'musicals' playing in the background. Tickover is happy at 1000 rpm - no lower at present. Will the mixture need adjustment - we will see. Putting the bonnet back after lunch and will take it for a test drive. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SuzanneH Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Watch out if your on the Wild Western Avenue Roger is out there testing the TR4A again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 No Casualties, the engine went well if a bit chuggy. Will the different valve timings affect the carb mixture. Have to see how a colour tune works. Talking about colourTune I am pleased to say that the Musicians have left the building. There is a definite increase in enthusiasm to leap forward by the engine. I wasn't really after this but but will not be too critical. Whilst resetting the dizzy earlier on my lovely Gunson timing light stopped timing. The light flashes but the synchonising knob at the back has no effect. Fiddlesticks. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 No Casualties, the engine went well if a bit chuggy. Will the different valve timings affect the carb mixture. Have to see how a colour tune works. Talking about colourTune I am pleased to say that the Musicians have left the building. There is a definite increase in enthusiasm to leap forward by the engine. I wasn't really after this but but will not be too critical. Whilst resetting the dizzy earlier on my lovely Gunson timing light stopped timing. The light flashes but the synchonising knob at the back has no effect. Fiddlesticks. Roger Positive and negative power supply cables not connected properly? Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hi Peter, I wouldn't say that I was not capable of getting the colours wrong but on this occasion they were correct. One moment working fine and then not working fine. I'll give Gunson a call on Monday. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hi Folks, yesterdays run out went OK. The engine felt good but on tick over it is a bit lumpy. This morning I checked the mixture as best I can with a colour tune and it did sort of what it should do. I'm no expert with the CT. So Q #1 - do these performance cams (Moss TT1104N road cam) make the tick over lumpy? Q #2 - if it shouldn't be lumpy what would cause the lumpiness.? Going out for another run this afternoon to see if things settle down. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hi Roger ~ May I humbly suggest that you remove your green hat and tie a Japanese suicide pilot's flag to your head then give it some Wellie ~ Banzai !!! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 'My last journey' Roger san. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Hi Roger ~ I forgot to mention that you won't want the parachute!! Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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