AndrewP Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) Happy Xmas to everyone out there in TR land. Not long to go before the customary 4am wake-up from the kids Whilst I'm hiding in the garage avoiding shopping, my attention now is on outer panels. And..the dreaded panel gap issue arises. So before anyone jumps in..this is a ground up rebuild. The chassis integrity and dimensions have been checked and triple checked whilst all level before everything blasted primed and painted. Body tub is on the chassis with the same packers both L and R. Body tub was repaired (sills, floor pans etc.) using the chassis as a guide/datum. I have a +/- 2mm variance between top of the front leading edge of the door to the bottom. Nothing major, but needs correcting (especially as I have the opportunity before the paint goes on). To correct a gap, I see that Stuart has used lead loading on the edges, and have found a post with someone suggesting a bead of weld along the edge to correct a 1-2mm discrepancy. I also see that the US and bodywork places use reinforced body filler to achieve the same 4-5mm panel gaps (few YouTube videos on the subject). So, Im keen to get peoples views on lead vs. welding vs. body filler/J-B Weld Epoxy type material? Thanks Andrew Edited December 22, 2017 by AndrewP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
len1 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I followed Stuart advice and leaded the edges of door / wing , and it worked a treat.gaps are lovely.only thing with filler , it may chip if you catch the edge and then it's back to doing it again...lead is the way. Len Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rvwp Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Hi Andrew, Using filler to reduce door gaps will surely evenually crack and probably fall off as the doors are slammed shut. I would definetely use a bead of weld along the edge and then grind off to achieve the gap you want. Using lead for small discrepancies would be good but requires skill. I remember an article in Practical Classics magazine that recommended for larger gap closing, use a length of gas welding rod, initially tacked down the offending edge to close the gap, then contiuously welded along its length rather than directly welding along the edge. This is then ground off to the gap you want. I have used both lead and welding methods successfully over the years. Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) +1 with Len. +- 2mm is a 4mm difference between parameters and if the edge build up is done in a filler or glue of any major dimension you stand a chance either catching it or trapping something there which will lead to a chipped edge and on a finished painted car "tears before bedtime". If you are just "edging" the final finish by a mm or so you could weld the edge which will give you a permanent finish which you can grind back, but any more and as Len says Stuarts leading methoid will give best results. Also be careful where the "swage" line is on the panel, because of the change in profile it gets very close to catching and a nice tight gap before paint gets too tight when the various layers of primers, top coats and finishes goes on causing catching. Mick Richards Edited December 22, 2017 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeanF Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I used lead on the back edge of the front wing to correct the leading edge door gap. Worked well for me in the end, but it was very fiddly and as Rich says it requires skill and patience. Be careful to direct the heat outwards towards the edge of the panel rather than inwards as this can result in warping. Ask me how I know! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 You lot all know I only ever use lead for the panel edges and if anyone has been to my demo`s you will have seen me demonstrate the strength of even a large section of lead added to the leading/trailing edges of panels. It is the safest way to get longevity on repairs. Never ever fill edges or even right up at an edge as its 1. Unsightly to see a thick panel edge and 2. its bad practice on the front edge of doors as the way they open the leading edge goes inside the front with quite minimal clearance (Depending on the adjustment) anyway. With regards to the swage line at the front of the door catching the wing when trying to achieve really good gaps, there is a way to get your gaps closer but as its Christmas its going to cost you a £10 donation to my favourite Spaniel charity (Spaniel Aid UK) to find out by PM`ing me Happy Christmas chaps. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I used a bead of weld on the rear of the door panels. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I used a bead of weld on the rear of the door panels. Tom. Only thing with that is you do tend to put more heat into the panel with the associated worry of warping and also then you need to grind it down which can mean thinning the panel edge even more as its difficult to get a consistent grind across a weld. FWIW the Italia I am doing at the moment has the door/bonnet and boot skins welded round the edge to the frame in most of the sides, however those panels are made in 17SWG so very thick and the welds are the width of button thread. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Hi Andrew, as per Stuarts info, Lead is the way, and been lucky enough to catch one of his demos at IWE, which does build confidence. It is straightforward, wouldn't call it easy until you have mastered the technique, but it is staraightforward, little costly getting the raw materials these days, for very small amounts. Only other way I've ever seen done, that stood the test of time, was tack mig welding, gas welding rod down the edge of the door exactly where you want the line, this and then skim filling the valley caused by the fact that the gas welding rod is round,- that stayed on some TR doors OK. It gave one added benefit, the gas welding rod was something like 1/8 inch round, and it meant the the door edge carried this radious - which looked perfect. Sure you have got the message that filler on its own, just will not live with the job. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 (edited) You should not need lead or filler for door gaps with std panels. Edited December 25, 2017 by ntc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark69 Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 You should not need lead or filler for door gaps with std panels. I've heard many cars came out the factory with dreadful panel gaps, so not strictly true Neil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 25, 2017 Report Share Posted December 25, 2017 I've heard many cars came out the factory with dreadful panel gaps, so not strictly true Neil. Nothing that you can not sort out with more time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 26, 2017 Report Share Posted December 26, 2017 You should not need lead or filler for door gaps with std panels. Unfortunately the supply of good original panels is dwindling now and repros often leave a lot to be desired. Rear wings being a case in point. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewP Posted December 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Thank you everyone for their input and hope everyone had a good and safe xmas. If I take into account where my panels have come (donor rot-box of a car) from and who knows what and how they were fitted to in past lives, Ive managed to get most of them looking good and in the 4mm range (using 3.2mm builders packing wedges) The lower front wing leading edges that seem to need a mm or so of more material . They taper from the top to the bottom ~ 2mm (starting @ 3mm and finishing at the bottom ~ 5mm) Im reluctant to start to pack the body up and down as currently they are all the same as per the book. I will be using a bit of lead along the lower part of those to tidy the gaps up which should correct the small taper and visually look good. Thanks all and have a happy new year. Andrew Edited December 27, 2017 by AndrewP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewP Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 And ready for paint.... So..I decided a week or so go to get a professional to undertake the final top coats and get everything bob-on. I undertook the tub re-paint and whilst its OK its not good enough for a final finish (the bit that people see) so In reviewing the next 6 months of 2018 Ive realised I dont have the time to dedicate nor the patience to get this last bit right and to the ultimate finish I want. Its been 4 years since the accident and to go from this: to this: Im fairly happy to say the least so a few $$ spent on this last stage should see it return to (and better) its former glory. Getting someone to do this last bit means I can regather my enthusiasm while its away and concentrate on the interior so I can finish it off over our winter ready for next spring/summer (2018-2019) I`ll post some progress shots and the final reveal but its looking like a good start to 2018 so far as the TR goes. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 TR's were never hand made precision cars, they were just thrown together to earn Britain Dollars! Part of the charm and character of these old sports cars we have preserved are the 'original' awful 'shut lines' ...I'll get my coat (again). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 And ready for paint.... So..I decided a week or so go to get a professional to undertake the final top coats and get everything bob-on. I undertook the tub re-paint and whilst its OK its not good enough for a final finish (the bit that people see) so In reviewing the next 6 months of 2018 Ive realised I dont have the time to dedicate nor the patience to get this last bit right and to the ultimate finish I want. Its been 4 years since the accident and to go from this: P1010046.JPG to this: IMG_20180104_102421.jpg Im fairly happy to say the least so a few $$ spent on this last stage should see it return to (and better) its former glory. Getting someone to do this last bit means I can regather my enthusiasm while its away and concentrate on the interior so I can finish it off over our winter ready for next spring/summer (2018-2019) I`ll post some progress shots and the final reveal but its looking like a good start to 2018 so far as the TR goes. Cheers The repair is a credit to you. Denis is spot on regarding standard shut lines, mine is a never touched car as far as bodywork goes, and the rear wing shut is 1.5 mm at the bottom to 4.5mm at the top, (both sides. Fronts are better, but still poor, be good to see the car when done! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewP Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Completely agree guys... The gaps once all the blocking and fitting will be good...not perfect as thats not what Im after but as explained to the panel and paint guy..good enough to pass inspection visually and by 'car person'. Its a car after all...built for driving and fun..looking at (whilst clutching compulsory beverage) and pointing to things a secondary past-time Also, the cars colour works slightly in my favour as a dark(er) colour can lessen the contrast between the (dark) gap and (light) panel. Thanks for the kind words..lots of work to go but really buoyed by the progress and the end result so far. A big thank you to all that have replied to queries and questions from the other side of the world....without the forum Id have been lost so heart-felt thanks. Onwards! Edited January 10, 2018 by AndrewP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeanF Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Good luck with it Andrew. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark69 Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Wow Andrew that's one hell of a bump. Glad to see you persevered and put her back together.Best of luck with the rest of the build. Mark Edited January 10, 2018 by Mark69 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin White Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Andrew, full of admiration for what youve achieved especially from our part of the world. Hope to see you and the car at a future Oz Nationals somewhere in the future. Colin W - Adelaide SA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.