New Old Stock bearing shells.

[Charlie D]

Hello All,

 

I purchased my TR3A in 1972, in Athens. (US$300 !!!) The local Triumph dealer told me there were only about 4 TRs in the whole of Greece, so no spares were stocked, and anything I might need could take 2 months to arrive.

 

About six months later I came back to England for a holiday and while passing through London I visited the “Cox and Buckles shop” to pick up a selection of might-need bits. (I remember I was actually served by Mr. Cox or Mr. Buckles).

 

I don’t think I ever used any of the bits!

 

Now, 44 years later, I’m rebuilding a TR engine and need –10 thou bearing shells, and I just happen to have a set I bough back in ‘72

 

I unwrapped the main shells, and found them to be covered in thick grease, now slightly hardened, but will wash-up to perfection.

 

The big end shells were a different matter. They were packed in anti-rust paper and, although the edges and backs had very slight rust in places (can be scratched off with a finger nail) the front bearing surfaces were tarnished to a dark gray. There were patches of shiny bits showing through on a couple, but mostly there seems to be a layer of some sort of tarnish coving them.

 

So what do you advise me to do?

 

(1) Go back to Cox and Buckles and ask for my money back.

(2) Try to clean the surface up, and if so how.

(3) Take the loss, and buy new ones.

 

With regard new ones, what is the opinion on Ferguson tractor shells. About half the price of TR ones, but are they OK. I’m pretty sure the size is 100% the same, but what about the material?

 

The moral of the story is that New Old Stock may have been new once, but now it’s old.

 

(A bit like me)

 

Regards,

 

Charlie D

[RogerH]

Hi Charlie,

the grey/gray bearing material has a covering of oxidation. TRy Autosol to clean. This is very mild compared to 60 grit emery!!

 

If you have a concern over the fit afterwards then the use of Plastiguage should show the fit accurately.

 

Regarding Fergy spares. The Fergy revs at apprx 2000 max. It can do this forever even with sand etc in the oil.

If you do lowish revs - typically 3K or so - then I'm sure they will work.

 

However for £50 or so is it really worth the worry.

 

Roger

[TR 2100]

1972 - London - would have been Buckles.

Pete Cox was based in Birmingham at that time.

 

Shop? Have to check dates, but I thought Buckles was

selling stuff out of his garage, weekends only, at that time.

 

I'm no engineer, but I reckon the quality of Vandervell bearings

(I too have a box or two!) would trump modern manufactures.

 

AlanR

[Charlie D]

Roger,

 

Thanks for the advice. In the 70’s I was a computer engineer, and we used to polish magnetic drums with Brasso. We were told not to shake the tin, just use the liquid from the top. (The drums were 6 feet long and 1 foot diameter --- a lot of Brasso).

I’ll give Autosol a go.

 

As regards “… for £50 or so is it really worth the worry…”, I know what you mean, but the problem is that there are so many “Just another £50” items, it soon adds up to “Just another £1000”

 

 

Alan,

 

I may have been wrong about the year of my visit, but I’m sure it could not have been later than 1973. I do remember the shopkeeper saying, “You seem to be buying a lot of stuff. Do you have enough money to pay for it all?” which I thought was a bit odd. Bit difficult to do a runner with the weight of the spares I’d bought. I also think the shop looked out onto a green, somewhere south of the river. But it was a long time ago….

 

Charlie D

[Lebro]

I also purchased parts from that shop in 1971, a windscreen, I remember it was near a park, & somewhere in south London.

 

Bob.

[RogerH]

Hi Charlie,

could it have been near Clapham common as the London and Thames Valley groups met at the Windmill Pub in the early 70's.

Pete Buckles was up near Hampstead at about that time but he did move arounf a fair bit.

 

Roger

[Charlie D]

I know this has gone a bit off topic from my original question, but it is really bugging me now.

 

I’ve just spent an hour or so looking at Google Maps to try to work out where the shop was.

 

Bob has exactly the same memories of the shop, so it must have existed.

 

I think it was a triangular shaped park, with roads running on all three sides, and I remember driving along one of the roads, looking across the green and seeing the shop.

 

The names “Twickenham”, “Richmond” and “Kew” come to mind, but searching the maps I can’t seem to find the right place. (I even looked on street view in case I could see a blue plaque with the words “Cox and Buckles once had a shop here” but to no avail).

 

Now that Roger has mentioned Clapham, I’m wondering if that was it.

 

I know it’s not important, but it niggles me not being able to remember.

 

Charlie D

[Chilliman]

First one I remember going to in the early 80's was the one in Manor Road, Richmond which appears to be a majestic wine warehouse now

[Alec Pringle]

In the mid-70s the old C&B shop was in Tooting, painted purple . . . . . .

 

Then came the big move to Balham and better premises . . . . . 1978 or 79?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Rob Salisbury]

The first shop I remember Pete B. having was in Mitcham, London Road I think, .... I bumped into him in the carpark of Doves in Wimbledon and he grumbled at me for not buying from him!!, it was OK though as I was getting some parts for my Mum's Triumph Herald, then as I remember he moved to a mews premises round the corner from Manor Rd, then Manor Rd, on to Victoria Villas and finally out to Feltham all the time making my journeys to him easier!! Good on you Pete.

Cheers Rob

[RogerH]

In the mid-70s the old C&B shop was in Tooting, painted purple . . . . . .

 

Then came the big move to Balham and better premises . . . . . 1978 or 79?

 

Cheers

 

Alec

 

Ah, Balham; gateway to the East.

 

Roger

[Charlie D]

Amazing !!!

 

Taking all the above addresses into account I looked on Google maps and there, about half way between Tooting and Mitcham is a triangular park called “Figges Marsh”

 

Switching to Street View, I could drive down the Streatham Road, and look out across the park to the London Road.

 

It was (Almost), like going back to that day when I bought the bearings in the 1970’s.

 

All just as I remember it.

 

Thank you to everyone who has helped me on this quest.

Maybe brought back a few memories for some of you as well.

 

Charlie D.

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Charlie,

 

Buckles has a lot to answer for.

 

I went into the shop, 1976, he didn't have a decent used what I wanted.

 

We discussed the recent Goodwood track day, that had proved to be something of a difficulty and resulted in problems with the RAC MSA (as it was then), and I explained how it should have been run. So I had to explain how I knew all this stuff, being involved in professional motor sport etc . . . . .

 

PB disappeared out back, returned with what I wanted . . . . nos at that.

 

Yes I could buy it, but only if I joined the TRR committee and utilised my expertise (such as it was).

 

40 years on . . . . . . .

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[nowtelse2do]

So we have Mr Buckles to either thank or curse....lol

 

Having been in your company, I think thanks.

 

Dave

[james christie]

"You seem to be buying a lot of stuff. Do you have enough money to pay for it all?"

 

You were definitely served by Pete Buckles!

 

James

[Alec Pringle]

:lol:

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Lebro]

None of those place names sound quite right to me, but definitely the right general area.

 

 

 

Ah, Balham; gateway to the East.

 

Roger

 

South surely ?

 

Bob.

[RogerH]

..not according to P.Sellers esq.

 

Roger

[RobH]

Sorry Roger:

 

[RogerH]

Hi Rob/Bob,

I have spent my whole adult life believing that Balham was the gateway to the East and now I am undone.

 

Next you will be telling me that Bill and Ben were not real people.

 

Roger

[ChrisR-4A]

No Roger, but you can buy a Little Weed in Balham! So I'm told????

[Charlie D]

Roger,

 

Actually, I think that “Bill and Ben” WERE real people!

 

The person who wrote the stories started off by telling the tales to his nephews, who were called “Bill” and “Ben”.

 

The strange language that the TV series characters used included the words “Flab-alab”.

 

This, apparently, came about from the noise that the nephews made by passing wind while having a bath.

 

 

All a long way from my original question about crank bearing shells.

 

But what an education this forum is.

 

(Apologies to any overseas readers who haven’t understood word of this thread since the fourth reply.)

 

Charlie D.

[Motorsport Mickey]

Hi Charlie,

the grey/gray bearing material has a covering of oxidation. TRy Autosol to clean. This is very mild compared to 60 grit emery!!

 

If you have a concern over the fit afterwards then the use of Plastiguage should show the fit accurately.

 

Regarding Fergy spares. The Fergy revs at apprx 2000 max. It can do this forever even with sand etc in the oil.

If you do lowish revs - typically 3K or so - then I'm sure they will work.

 

However for £50 or so is it really worth the worry.

 

Roger

Err...I won the TR Register Championship in my TR4 1988 using revs up to 6000 and utilising Ferguson - 60 ...yes Sixty thou undersize big end bearings and not only was the crank ok but so were the bearings, (though after 15 races and practices the bearing material were starting to be squeezed out of the sides of the conrods ( softer than the backing and much thicker than standard also) ...tch tch the things you do searching for more power. Admittedly the engine was putting out considerably more HP than you are likely to be reaching.

 

Mick Richards

Edited September 16, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[Charlie D]

Mick,

 

Thanks for the comment.

Curious to know why you used Fergy shells?

 

Charlie D

[Motorsport Mickey]

Only shells I could get that would do -60 thou, and the crank was ground like that for a purpose.

 

Mick Richards