restore or part out - car was cut in half for storage

[rhead]

I bought a 60 TR3A (TS81227L), which come with a shop-load of spare bits.: 2 engines (one rebuilt), 2 rear ends, TR3 and TR4 (modified) frames, 6 doors, 3 hoods, 2 trunks, a new (unopened) top, the fenders are useable. Needs floor pans, inner rails and rockers and a trunk floor replacement. Front inner fenders usable. Has seats, trim, side windows, top irons, disc and wire wheels, bumper and guards, two front ends (one rebuilt), 2 4 spd transmissions and another with OD, two complete dashes with a box of extra Jaeger instruments, 2 square hole radiators, banjo wheel, boxes of NOS and replacement bits such as bearings and seals, all gaskets, tonneau cover, excellent windshield, transmission tunnel, and rot - free cowl.

 

BUT a previous owner cut through the sills, rockers and floor pans, storing the car end on end like bookends in his garage for 40 years.

 

I have thought I could sell the spares to pay for a lot of the welding work I am not equipped to do, and get on with the rest myself....Frankly, my goal woudl be to use what is there and build a "barn fresh" hpof driver.

 

What is all of this worth parted out? Am I nuts to tackle a re-weld like this (will it ever line up properly), and what kind of money am I getting into just for eth welding (how many hours to weld in the sills, rockers, pans?).

 

I did not pay a lot for the car (1,750 pounds).

 

Thoughts and advice?

 

Robert

 

[rhino_mac]

Half joking - sell it to Graham on here who is looking for a very late car. Then he can spend the balance of his budget getting Stuart to rebuild it!

[rhead]

I am thinking I should be able to get 4-5,000 pounds for it parted....or am I over-estimating the prices of parts?

[TR 2100]

Robert,

 

No, I don't think you are overestimating the value of

the parts - could well be even more. Original factory

parts are at a premium.

 

Don't worry about the strength/integrity of a bodyshell

that has been cut in two. Many restorations are based

on such a scenario, with the floors and sills rusted out.

 

Great shame to scrap the car - another one bites the dust.

 

AlanR

[TomMull]

You've got a very solid basis for restoration and spare parts to sell as a bonus. I agree, it would be a shame to part this out. The fact that the body is in two very good pieces would be of little concern to me.

Tom

[foster461]

Looks like a very viable project to me too and with a frame ready to start re-assembly around some new inner sills.

[rhead]

I think I am going to go the rebuild route, selling the spares to pay for things as I go along, get it off to a reasonable start. This will not be a concours car, but rebuilt to be driven and enjoyed. Am I better off to use the TR4 frame (which has been modified) or should I be sticking to the original (but rusted)? Use the OD in the car? I can get inner sills and floor pans and rockers - but how will I be able to line everything up to weld right? I am worried about the gap ... mind the gap >grin<

 

I was surprised when I noted the spare tire well is not rusted. The floors are a bit swiss-cheesy, but not gone, so they have kept the car from folding up.

 

I am missing a few bits - horns, wiring harness, couple hubcaps if I do not use the wires, but really, little of consequence. Most is usable as is with a good clean up...

[rhead]

a few more pics - I have a bunch more I will post

[rhead]

here are a few more

[rhead]

and more

[rhead]

almost done

[rhead]

about there

[rhead]

That's it for pics for now

[rhead]

What I am missing is the commission tag. I have the Vin as 3TS81227L (The prefix 3 was used in Canada to denote sold in '63, I am told). Body EB79307. Looks like was originally red...or black...hard to tell. The car was in storage for 42 years. 60,000 miles on it (orig). Of the engines I have are B2121 301345 and E218 301345 (no idea what that means).

 

Anyone care to educate me?

 

I must admit, after reading a few threads, I am curious to come to know Stuart (!). I am guessing he is the local restoration shop specialist? Also, why the interest in later TR3A's? Besides the TSF and TCF models for rarity...

 

If I use the TR4 frame I have - what TR3 bits will bolt right in, and what will have to be changed out?

 

I have owned several Triumph's previously - all mid-sixties motorcycles. This is a whole new thing for me... I am thinking how much fun it would be to re-assemble what I have that is usable, and go from there, and NOT restore, but repair and drive (with a paint job). I am the third owner of this car, the second having not driven it...

 

Robert

[TR 2100]

Robert,

 

Some interesting photos and interesting questions.

Some thoughts/ideas:

 

Usually far better to keep the car as it should be, so

beware the TR4 chassis. Can't see how "rusted out"

your TR3 chassis is - the chassis photo you show

seems to be TR3.

If the TR3 chassis really is rusted out, then a TR4

chassis could be an option, but beware - the TR4

has wider track and R&P steering.

A bit strange that you seem to have, as a spare, the

chassis front cross member for a TR3. Maybe the

PO bought this as a Stanpart spare with the idea of

using it to adapt a TR4 chassis.

 

The front apron photos seems to indicate an earlier

TR3A whereas other photos indicate a post-60,001

body (squared rear floor). Note also (not critical, but

for consistency) that post-60,001 bodyshells had

'raised' hinges (as seen in a bootlid photo).

 

Really hope you do find a way to ensure the car is

restored, but I suggest a bit more thought/research/

advice would help before you decide on the exact

direction to take.

 

Restoring a TR3 is a big decision to take, for sure,

but certainly DON'T rule it out based on your main

concerns as expressed in your post.

 

AlanR

[foster461]

What I am missing is the commission tag. I have the Vin as 3TS81227L (The prefix 3 was used in Canada to denote sold in '63, I am told). Body EB79307. Looks like was originally red...or black...hard to tell. The car was in storage for 42 years. 60,000 miles on it (orig). Of the engines I have are B2121 301345 and E218 301345 (no idea what that means).

 

Anyone care to educate me?

 

I must admit, after reading a few threads, I am curious to come to know Stuart (!). I am guessing he is the local restoration shop specialist? Also, why the interest in later TR3A's? Besides the TSF and TCF models for rarity...

 

If I use the TR4 frame I have - what TR3 bits will bolt right in, and what will have to be changed out?

 

I have owned several Triumph's previously - all mid-sixties motorcycles. This is a whole new thing for me... I am thinking how much fun it would be to re-assemble what I have that is usable, and go from there, and NOT restore, but repair and drive (with a paint job). I am the third owner of this car, the second having not driven it...

 

Robert

 

 

Robert, Stuart is Stuart Edwards. Stuart has a restoration shop in Truro, Cornwall (Watermill Carriage Company - http://watermillcarriage.webs.com/)and also serves as the Technical Editor for the club magazine - http://www.tr-register.co.uk/contact.

 

Stuart is a huge asset to the club and has been very generous with his time and expertise as you will see from his many contributions on this forum. It is unusual for Stuart not to weigh in when anyone is facing a problem or has a question about a TR restoration project and he has many followers like me that have benefited personally from his advice.

 

Stan

[TR 2100]

Robert,

 

The tag 3TS81227L, the commission number, means one of

the last TR3As built. TS 82,345 is reputedly the last one.

The body tag of EB79307 is pretty much consistent with

the commission number. The numbers do not match exactly

as TS numbers were issued for various ‘specials’ (Italia,

Peerless, Warwick) so the TS number will be higher than

the commission number.

 

If you are confident the car has had, effectively, one owner,

then the car is likely unadulterated. A fairly rare (and lucky)

scenario.

 

I cannot make sense of the engine numbers you quote.

The engine number is stamped on a machined flat area, just

behind and to the right of the coil.

It should be either TS xxxxxE for a TR3 engine, or CTxxxxE

for a TR4 engine. Check it out.

 

Interchangeability with TR4 parts is good BUT the suspension

geometry (front) was changed very early in TR4 production.

 

Wires look like the original 48-spoke, so bin those. Easy enough

to pick up cheap hub caps.

 

Stuart is a hands-on restorer in the west country. Top guy and top

poster.

 

TR Register members can pay their money (to either Heritage or

Bill Piggott) and get the original specification of their car.

Well worth doing (both getting an original “Trace” and joining the

TR Register, even though you will get help on this Forum regardless)

 

AlanR

[rhead]

Great help, fellas!

 

I do have a TR3 front cross member, and as well as TR3 frame. In the photos, the TR4 frame is sitting on top of the TR3 frame. While the guy who sold to me said the frame was rotten, I have not looked closely. And, of course, there is always POR15....or I could simply find a decent TR3 frame, I am fairly confident.

 

I know the original owner sold the car with a 58 parts car, so there may have been some cherry picking going on. No idea whatever happened to the parts car. I am going over the files that came with the car and am noting my car has Engine TS1423F (maybe an 8) and the second engine I have is from Commission no. TS32647L and Engine TS33207E. The total paid for both cars was $550 CAD in 1976. The original owner of the 1958 was Donald Senft and the 63 was originally owned by John Baxter [who was an industrial relations supervisor for Canadian Canners Limited), who used the car for his honeymoon in 1963. Just before the car was taken apart for 38 years storage, it was registered in 1977 with 56,701 miles on the odometer. Skinner obtained a new registration for the car in 2014, when selling it to the guy I bought it from, who did nothing but move to a garage for dead storage for another 2 years, without re-registering in his name. I do have a copy of Baxter's newspaper advert for the 63 as a TR3B, from a local paper in 1976.

 

I find it interesting that interspersed with the notes are drawings for directions of where to meet for completing transactions - way before the gps was an option....

 

Many receipts for parts bought and still sitting new in boxes.

 

There is a note about engine TR3B CT5912E, but I am unable to verify what that is all about ?

 

When looking at the car today, it was clear to me it had been stripped down and repainted once before, with small amounts of surfacing bondo - no major rust repair or any evidence of accidents. Seems are also all nice and not eaten away by rust - sharp even edges, everywhere.

 

Noted in boxes that some of the extra Jaeger instruments were smaller....speedo and tach. Wonder if they would be for earlier years?

Edited March 27, 2016 by rhead

[Graham]

Half joking - sell it to Graham on here who is looking for a very late car. Then he can spend the balance of his budget getting Stuart to rebuild it!

I had my chequebook ready, but I'm thinking its a long way to go view it,!

 

Robert If I had the contents of your garage I would rebuild it then at the end you know you have got a good car and you will know every nut and bolt.

 

ATB Graham

[Richardtr3a]

The chassis is very important.

 

Your first job is to have the chassis cleaned, zinc coated, welded as necessary and properly painted with the correct chassis paint. The inside of the chassis should be treated with rust killer/converter and then treated with an underseal. You would need to drill the holes in the chassis in the correct locations because it is divided vertically inside.

 

Once you have a proper chassis the line up of the body and doors is not difficult. Can you find a body shop who have experience of TR's. In my experience it would be best to pay the extra cost and find a specialist.

 

Good luck.

[stuart]

Presumably you are in Canada, we do have a few members over there who may be able to help you out with finding a capable bodyshop. The essential part will be the chassis frame as that is used as a jig to build up the whole car from. Dont worry about the fact that the shell has been cut in half as that is pretty usual because you always need to replace the bits in between anyway. From what I can see you look to have plenty of bits, I wouldnt sell any of it off until you are sure you have the best parts to make one car. Buy yourself a good workshop manual and get a copy of the Moss Motors parts book. Also have a good look through the TRF onlne catalogue too then you will have a better idea of what you will or wont need. Dont be tempted by any of the go-faster bits to start with as a standard car is always easier to sell if required.

Stuart.

[Stevecross]

Robert

 

£1750 GBP for that lot?

 

Over here anyone would think they had died and gone to heaven!

Steve

[Ian Vincent]

To answer the original question, rebuild it! No question.

 

Rgds Ian

[iain]

This looks like terrific project. Totally agree with Stuart's advice. Part with nothing until you have decided what are the best/ correct parts for the car you are building.

I also echo Ian's view.....that was a very good buy!

Iain

[Dave Larnder]

Robert

 

What part of Canada are you living in? My son lives in Vernon B.C. and when I visit him I always go to Drakes British Motors in Kelowna to see all his TR´s etc.

 

Dave