Tony Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 hi All, what are the pro's and con's of using Evans Water-less coolant as against the usual water and 50% good anti freeze? My engine has just been rebuilt and the block and head were chemically cleaned, so no rust, the radiator has been re-cored, the heater has a new Clayton matrix, the water pump is new along with a new aluminum housing, all new silicone hoses. So the whole water system is nice and clean Any thoughts?? tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Waterless coolants are banned in motorsport because they can catch fire in an accident. I would spend the money on a proper recored rad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi Tony, the waterless coolant should keep the rust etc away. Apart from that there aren't too many other advantages. The cons would be - expense, having to carry more waterless coolant in the boot as you can't add water - at any time. Although it doesn't boil it can allow the engine to get much hotter than norm. There is a theoretical fire risk Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The more antifreeze you add, the worse it gets as a coolant. 50% water/antifreeze (glycol) is about 15% worse in removing heat than pure water, or the other way around 15% more coolant is needed to be flowed to do the same as water. Only use as much antifreeze as you need to protect the engine from the lowest temperature that it will face. A good quality antifreeze will include anticorrosion additives to protect your engine from aluminium/iron electrolytic interaction. Keep some antifreeze/water mixed to your chosen concentration to top up with, but your rebuilt engine really shouldn't need topping up, after residual air bubbles are trapped in the top radiator tank. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Stick to Antifreeze/water you do not want to go down the Evans route.You may like to read this http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marc R Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Stick to Antifreeze/water you do not want to go down the Evans route.You may like to read this http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm Stuart. So after reading this document (Look at the "summary of findings" if this is too long) with all the arguments and drawbacks, the question is: "Is Evans still an option ?" Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted January 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thanks every one, i think i will stick to water and anti-freeze, the last thing i want to do is raise the engine temperature. the original Stanpart radiator has been re cored by Arrow Radiators, using a copper core with 143 tubes instead of the original 94 and I have also fitted a 17 inch fan. I was watching Ed China on Wheeler Dealers last night singing the praises of the Water less coolant that he was putting into a TR6, which got me thinking about what i should use. tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I was watching Ed China on Wheeler Dealers last night singing the praises of the Water less coolant that he was putting into a TR6, which got me thinking about what i should use. I'll bet you they sponsored the program in some way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewMAshton Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hello, what about 4Life, sold by the MGOC, I use it in my 4A, car temperature gauge never wavers, commercial world, known as ELC, been using it for ages, cheers, Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 From a web-search it looks like 4life is the Evans waterless stuff. ELC (extended life coolant) is different and seems to be an OAT antifreeze/water mix - (organic acid technology). OK for moderns but not recommended for classic engines which should use silicate based antifreeze because of incompatability of OAT with old materials used in the cooling systems. There have been lots of prior threads on that topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 We've discussed waterless coolants, Evans and others, on here a number of times. One might find those earlier threads via searching if they're of interest. I won't go over all of my reasoning again -- the guys above have covered most of it -- but the waterless approach ain't for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 From a web-search it looks like 4life is the Evans waterless stuff. ELC (extended life coolant) is different and seems to be an OAT antifreeze/water mix - (organic acid technology). OK for moderns but not recommended for classic engines which should use silicate based antifreeze because of incompatability of OAT with old materials used in the cooling systems. There have been lots of prior threads on that topic. Not correct! 4life is recommended for use in Vintage and Classics, It has been in my completely rebuilt 3A for 9 years without any problems whatsoever. Evans is a completely different product. http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?pCode=080.861 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not correct! 4life is recommended for use in Vintage and Classics, It has been in my completely rebuilt 3A for 9 years without any problems whatsoever. Evans is a completely different product. http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?pCode=080.861 Show me how they're different -- especially with regard to the basic waterless concept. Ethylene glycol v propylene glycol? Seem like peas in a pod to me. Within a few degrees of the same BP, and minor differences in heat capacity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Stick to Antifreeze/water you do not want to go down the Evans route.You may like to read this http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm Stuart. I shall be using Norosion - the TR will never get anywhere near freezing. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewMAshton Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 One difference, and it is a big one is that 4life is about a quarter the price!!, Good enough for me, more money to waste on shiny bits, cheers, Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 One difference, and it is a big one is that 4life is about a quarter the price!!, Good enough for me, more money to waste on shiny bits, cheers, Andrew Still 35% higher than regular ethylene glycol antifreeze. Why not just run normal stuff with no dilution then? IMO, the science behind waterless coolants is weak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Show me how they're different -- especially with regard to the basic waterless concept. Ethylene glycol v propylene glycol? Seem like peas in a pod to me. Within a few degrees of the same BP, and minor differences in heat capacity. Castrol 4Life instructions recommend that you just drain the water based antifreeze out of your car and refill with 4life Evans has a complicated procedure to rid your car of the last trace of H2O Similar maybe, but the same stuff, I dont think so. Anyway I am very happy with 4life and will be refilling with it next year, had enough of leaking hoses, rust, aluminium corrosion etc. etc. in over 50 years of running Classics what a pleasant change to be rid of all that hassle! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 It's **** don't even think about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not correct! 4life is recommended for use in Vintage and Classics, It has been in my completely rebuilt 3A for 9 years without any problems whatsoever. Evans is a completely different product. http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?pCode=080.861 Er..well how about this then? http://www.economax.co.uk/proven.html Quote: "Evans has been testing its 4LIFE Waterless Coolants in waste collection vehicles, over the road trucks, and buses........." Perhaps Castrol is selling this as their own or vice-versa? Of course if you are happy with it Paul that is fine but it makes no difference which breed of glycol its made from - it doesn't conduct heat away anything like as well as water can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cp25616 Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I have to admit to using Forlife (note spelling ) back in the 80's and 90's when it was still available and ran it about 50/50 with absolutely no problems whatsoever. This was used "neat" in the radiator of Dr. Michael Bingham and he swore by it hence that's how my interest in Forlife started. Now the company that marketed Forlife as well as countless other products, went out of business but M.B. assured me that Toyota Red was exactly the same stuff so I started using that in my TR6 and other classics which I own and it has performed admirably again running 50/50 with water, not neat as M.B. ran in his car. Can someone tell me if 4life mentioned above is the same as the old Forlife product? Phonetically similarly sounding but are they the same? However I praise Toyota Red highly, maybe M.B. was correct. After all his K reg TR6 was a mobile test bed and he ran it way, way more than most of us use their TR's now, so he was in a position to know what worked and what didn't. Just my tuppence worth Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cp25616 Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Looks like Forlife and 4 life are different then judging by the last 2 emails?? Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I gave up on 4life. It didn't seem to cause any problems but you have to carry a container of the stuff for topping up just like the Evans product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi Alan, 4Life, Forlife, Toyota Red what is going on. The MG forum quote Forlife, another MG forum quotes 4Life, I understand that the Toyota product was also Forlife Dr, Michael Bingley would be turning in his grave and probably having a larf as well. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cp25616 Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi Roger Yes and I'll bet he still has his clumpy bovver boots on as well. Not Doc Martin's but undeniably Doc. Bingley's !! Clever man was MB, not always correct but the vast majority of the time he was. A true TR owning character! Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Waterless is the way to go, terrific stuff, the dogs bo..... ........for cars stored in museum. But for transferring heat its b***y awful, and has many other downsides: http://www.oilem.com/potential-issues-with-waterless-engine-coolants/ Peter Edited January 20, 2016 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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