Tr4Tony Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 All I have a particular fuel tank which I have had repaired and subsequently pickled after the welding that was done. It's had several 'Lacey' areas cut out and patches put into it, seams rewelded and a split welded up so a lot of effort put in thus far. It's sat in the rear of the bodyshell for a year or so now as I've been moving house etc and having got back on the job recently I'm starting to see some surface rust coming through in various places. Does anyone have any recent experience of any products which I can use to rustproof and if necessary line the tank internally. I have tried the Frost Restoration tank lining kit in the past and it does not appear terribly useful. Any other options ? I really don't want bugger this up. Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Hi Tony, some of the American products seem to be better than our native offerings, they've had ethanol content fuel for longer than us ! The motorcycle fraternity are far more accustomed to using tank lining than the average classic car owner, the most up-to-date first hand experience might well be on bike than car forums ? Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kob666e Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you can get your hands on some Red-Kote: http://www.4secondsflat.com/Fuel_Tank_Sealer.html Bought some a few years ago, but can't remember where. Also Moss's Slosh Sealer is much the same stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am currently refurbishing the fuel tank from my 1967 T120. Much of the base had to ripped out, & new steel welded in, It then passed a pressure test, but just to be sure I wanted to seal it as well. Having heard that some products are latex pased, I wanted to find a sealer which was epoxy resin based, as that sounded to me to be a better bet. (I have in the past succesfully sealed up a couple of lawn mower tanks by pouring in some polyester resin). After a good brows on ebay, I ended up using an epoxy product called TAPOX. You clean the tank out to get rid of petrol, oil etc (already done prior to welding !) then use their FERTAN product to kill any rust. I did not have any of this, but did have some "Milkstone remover" (Phosphoric acid) I used this plus a few stones / gravel etc to scour, & etch any rust away. Throurough rinsing after produced a nice clean surface. Quickly dried off using hot air gun + compressed air. Then mixed the TAPOX up, (you pour a clear liquid hardener into a half full tin of the resin) mix well, then pour into tank, having sealed off the outlets. "Slosh" the mix all around the tank for a minute or two, then drain out. Wait an hour, then start passing a slow flow of compressed air through the tank to aid solvent evaporation. Do this for 3 hrs min (I left mine going fo 5 hrs) then leave to dry for several days before use. Well all went to plan, but examining the interior of the tank afterwards, there was solid resin where it mattered (all around the welded areas, & in all the nooks & crannies), but on the sides of the tank it was a bit streaky as if the surface was not "wetted" properly. I had hoped to see a nice even coating everywhere. Maybe this was a result of not using the makers FERTAN product, but I believe it is sealed where it needs to be. If using again I would use FERTAN, & probably only mix up half of the product, because you end up with almost half a tin again after draining off, which seems a bit of a waste. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) POR-15 makes a range of good products -- their rust-encapsulating urethane paints are terrific, and they have a well-respected fuel tank sealer. When my spare. better, tank (another TR3B tank originally removed from a car converted to a racer in the 1960s) gets changed out, it'll be after I treat it with this. http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tank-Sealer_p_64.html We have companies doing this commercially too, with proprietary systems and lifetime warranties. This is the company used by Mark Macy of Macy's Garage here in the US. They operate as franchises. http://www.gastankrenu.com/ Edited July 20, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I do wonder how long internal polymer coatings are going to last, as there is only ca 10-15 years' experience with ethanol fuels to judge them by. That's assuming the inside can be made 'totally dry' and the stuff actually sticks. I think I''d veer towards a phosphating prep internally, and externally a glass-flake-loaded resin coating(s): http://www.corrocoat.com/pages/products/polyglass Then use an anticorrosion additive when fuel is stored for weeks. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I do wonder how long internal polymer coatings are going to last, as there is only ca 10-15 years' experience with ethanol fuels to judge them by. That's assuming the inside can be made 'totally dry' and the stuff actually sticks. I think I''d veer towards a phosphating prep internally, and externally a glass-flake-loaded resin coating(s): http://www.corrocoat.com/pages/products/polyglass Then use an anticorrosion additive when fuel is stored for weeks. Peter Have you used any of the urethanes like POR-15, Peter? **** -- that stuff ain't comin' off anything. And urethanes, a reaction between and isocyanate and a polyol -- similar chemistry to water, of course -- will often cure stronger in the presence of moisture. That's how regular POR-15 cures, and I'd need to check their fuel tank sealer, because it might be the same. iSTR "totally" dry isn't required. I have fifteen or so years experience with regular POR-15 and it's incredibly durable. (Some of their finishes are UV-sensitive and need topcoating for exposure to sunlight, but if thst's a problem inside a fuel tank one has bigger problems than the coating.) There have been other fuel tank sealers that have indeed come off in years past, but AFAIK latest systems like POR-15 are significantly better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Don, Wont that mean it will react with ethanol as well as water? and ethanol is in the tank 24/7 at rather high concentration. ==== If POR15 or any other polymer internal sealant goes wrong it will be a b8888r to put right. Googling: POR15 + tank + fail suggests it may not be plain sailing. Before using any internal sealant I think finding out how to remove it if it fails might be wise. Peter Edited July 20, 2015 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Alcohols probably could have some reaction to help cure an urethane pre-polymer. Normally, mono-"ol"s like water or alcohol are bad for urethane strength -- they like polyols, but there are moisture-catalyzed cures that work just fine. Yes, removing any of those treatments is near impossible. Most of the fails I've read about aren't POR-15, or if they are, they seem to be related to inadequate cleaning and preparation prior to treatment. Checking the details, POR-15 does indeed recommend "totally" dry before using their sealer. Many folks will hook up a hair dryer to the tank inlet and let it run for a time to help dry a tank. from: http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit_p_62.html Edited July 20, 2015 by Don H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I have been using the Moss slosh sealer for years with no probs, its from the States so works fine with Ethyl. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 As I described in Section K3 of the Technicalities CD, I used Slosh Tank Sealant from Moss in 1998, and, as described in the article, my tank was as dry as a bone prior to use. I am ware of the use of ethanol, but so far (fingers firmly crossed!), all is well. I believe Moss now has a 3-stage treatment - it was a single stage in 1998. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Hi all Good advice and many thanks, much food for thought. Ian I suspect you may have had some if the issues I face ! So I'll try one of the multi part treatments. As Alec says, the motorbike guys seem to have a lot of experience. One last question though on additives; what effect does the like if Millers VSP, Octane boost and other ZDDP enhancers have in these mixes ? Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I used the POR15 treatment and so far it seems to have worked. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jogger321 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Just about to buy some POR15 to treat my standard TR6 tank ... I'm concerned about the baffles in the tank and how easy it is use this product as obviously I have concerns in case I mess up during the application of it.. Anyone care to give a blow by blow account of how they did their tank and if they were doing it again if they would do things differently? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Speed Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) ok can shed some light her based on many an old bike tank needing sorted, I have used white vinegar and soaked tanks for 2 weeks, then used light gravel, wrapped in sheets and put in the tumble drier, she wasnt chuffed her indoors with that but it works, some people have also used coca cola as that will also strip loose rust. I have used the por set up, make sure the room is ventilated well and you use slow motions holding it for longer in the process timewise for the corners, then leave it to dry for days until you are really sure its sealed, after that mine have been fine, you must do it properly as it you get it wrong or rush it and need to remove it thats a tough job or bits coming off will leave you by the roadside, a really good purchase off ebay is a camara on a bendy rod you can connect to your laptop and see in all places great tool for many purposes so than no guesswork on coverage or debri before you start attached a pic of my latest machine for all your seventies dudes Edited July 25, 2015 by Speed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlfredHitchcock Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Is that a 'fizzy'? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Speed Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yep, a 72 SS version, ie the one before they put fs1e on the side this has SS, its rare and matching and all correct without pattern parts except exhaust as you cant obtain or salvage them, ground up resto, had one when 16 and just love pottering around on it, always good for a crowd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kcsun Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Love your FS1E, brings back all my (good!) memories of being 16 in the mid seventies One of my mates had a Fantic chopper and was the envy of the school kc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Speed Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Love your FS1E, brings back all my (good!) memories of being 16 in the mid seventies One of my mates had a Fantic chopper and was the envy of the school kc Thanks, its is great fun, use it a lot as well have done 500 plus miles on it this year, always brings pleasure and laughs with a plump chap ridint it lol. I will take it along to a local TR meet when one comes up so you may see her as we are both Essex based Edited July 25, 2015 by Speed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlfredHitchcock Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ohh I remember well the smell and noise of an FS1E. You could hear it coming a mile off. Another contemporary bike I remember was the Kawasaki KH250. I think it was a triple? with a very distinctive ping ping 2 stroke noise. I bet theyre rare now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Speed Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Ohh I remember well the smell and noise of an FS1E. You could hear it coming a mile off. Another contemporary bike I remember was the Kawasaki KH250. I think it was a triple? with a very distinctive ping ping 2 stroke noise. I bet theyre rare now. yep A triple, possibly the best two stroke noise particulary with expansion pipes, have owned one and 2 gt750 suzukis or kettles, have chucked in classic bikes now excepy for fizzing and going whole hog on my schoolboy dream of a 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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