Kevo_6 Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Hi As some of you will know, I have had a few problems over the last year and a bit, part of this, is that I have had the gearbox refurbished, new clutch from Moss, doubled up cross shaft bushes and additional pin in the cross shaft/release fork. The gearbox is lovely the clutch is good but it is down near the floor, I have checked the pedal area and there is a bit of wear and a lot of wear in the clevis pin area. So this all points to be the problem, which I will address over the winter. My question is for example, I went for a great drive for a couple of hours Saturday afternoon through the beautiful countryside of Dorset, so the engine was good and hot with no problems whatsoever (very smooth gear changes) but when I got home and went to put the car in the garage after being on tick over for a few minutes, I found it really difficult to get it in to gear. Once it’s cold it’s no problem in selecting gear. So my thoughts are that it’s the flexible clutch pipe collapsing or something to do with the heat. It is the original pipe so that really needs replacing, I was thinking of the braided type but if it is to do with heat soak is it worth getting. Sorry to waffle on, getting back to the question I am asking: - Should I buy an original type hose or a braided hose? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 I would make sure that the system is bled well, the bleed screw on the slave cylinder should be on top of the pressure pipe. I don't think the pipe will make any difference. As a matter of interest which fluid did you use Dot 4 or 5? From a post recently on brakes the viscosity between the two are different, Dot 4 is thicker. The master cylinder push rod wear will make a big difference to the disengaging, there is a new push rod that is adjustable, that will take up any wear in the pins and pedal, I think from Revington. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 Those who drive my car say 'what a nice clutch' it still has it's original 45 year old red plastic pipe, maybe if bleeding doesnt help, change the slave cylinder, then the master. I replaced both of mine a few years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stanpartmanpartwolf Posted November 3, 2014 Report Share Posted November 3, 2014 If your car has a Laycock clutch cover it may be the cause of heat-related issues. Hydraulics are rarely to blame here. The hose is equally unlikely to be the culprit; in fact the original type is perfectly fit for purpose, given the lowish operating pressure, & resists abrasion far better than any stainless braid. Two of my roadgoing TRs have suffered similar clutch problems, cured in each case by a change of cover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Enlighten us; how does a clutch cover generate heat? It could well be that you have air in your system so worth a bleed. if there is air in there it might be your seals are on the way out (assuming the slave is the correct way up - I have seen them with mounted wit the bleed nipple at the bottom.) As the car warms up the heat eventually gets into the slave cylinder, the air expands and compresses when you press the pedal. When cold the volume is smaller so less to compress before the hydraulics do there thing and operate the clutch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I would make sure that the system is bled well, the bleed screw on the slave cylinder should be on top of the pressure pipe. I don't think the pipe will make any difference. As a matter of interest which fluid did you use Dot 4 or 5? From a post recently on brakes the viscosity between the two are different, Dot 4 is thicker. The master cylinder push rod wear will make a big difference to the disengaging, there is a new push rod that is adjustable, that will take up any wear in the pins and pedal, I think from Revington. John Hi John I will give the system another bleed and I use DOT 4 assuming that is better than DOT 5. I checked the pedal wear last night again and the clevis pin is really bad and the pedal hole is very oval, so I think I will remove the pedal box etc. and re-bush and weld up the hole and re-drill. Those who drive my car say 'what a nice clutch' it still has it's original 45 year old red plastic pipe, maybe if bleeding doesnt help, change the slave cylinder, then the master. I replaced both of mine a few years ago. Hi Denis The master cylinder looks relatively new and I was thinking about rebuilding the slave. If your car has a Laycock clutch cover it may be the cause of heat-related issues. Hydraulics are rarely to blame here. The hose is equally unlikely to be the culprit; in fact the original type is perfectly fit for purpose, given the lowish operating pressure, & resists abrasion far better than any stainless braid. Two of my roadgoing TRs have suffered similar clutch problems, cured in each case by a change of cover. Hi Stanpartmanpartwolf I fitted the Borg Beck kit from Moss. Enlighten us; how does a clutch cover generate heat? It could well be that you have air in your system so worth a bleed. if there is air in there it might be your seals are on the way out (assuming the slave is the correct way up - I have seen them with mounted wit the bleed nipple at the bottom.) As the car warms up the heat eventually gets into the slave cylinder, the air expands and compresses when you press the pedal. When cold the volume is smaller so less to compress before the hydraulics do there thing and operate the clutch. Hi Andy I have the slave mounted with the bleed nipple at the top. I am sure I read somewhere that the plastic pipe can collapse when hot causing this problem, which made me come to ask the question regarding the braided hose as I was thinking it could cause more heat soak. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I would make sure that the system is bled well, the bleed screw on the slave cylinder should be on top of the pressure pipe. I don't think the pipe will make any difference. As a matter of interest which fluid did you use Dot 4 or 5? From a post recently on brakes the viscosity between the two are different, Dot 4 is thicker. The master cylinder push rod wear will make a big difference to the disengaging, there is a new push rod that is adjustable, that will take up any wear in the pins and pedal, I think from Revington. John Do NOT confuse Dot 4 with Dot 5 as the latter is Sillycon and doesnt mix! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Kevo How much of the pedal travel is taken up in the slack clevis? I had the hole in the pedal welded up and a new one drilled, no slop at all now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Kevo How much of the pedal travel is taken up in the slack clevis? I had the hole in the pedal welded up and a new one drilled, no slop at all now. Hi Pete I took it apart last night and the clevis pin is worn almost a 1/3 of the way through and the pedals hole is worn about half a hole again, so i will do as you say and weld and re drill the hole and fit a new clevis pin. The master cylinder push rod has a little wear so I may have to source a new one of those. Should I replace the hose and if so which type to use? Edited November 4, 2014 by Kevo_6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Kevo Not braided Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marki Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi Kevo Had a similar problem last year, bled everything no difference. Changed to a bradded hose problem solved. Not an expensive item. Cheers Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Hi Kevo, from what you describe, it's more likely wear in the mechanical operating mechanism than in the hydraulic side - the Moss B&B clutch assemblies are unlikely to be a problem, they are not prone to the Laycock 'sticking when hot' syndrome. Laycock problems seem in any case usually down to poor quality 'reconditioning', and/or diaphragms past their use by date. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 I agree with Alec. Get the pedal slop sorted out as a priority and leave the hydraulics for now. I'll wager that will fix the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 My vote also goes for the hole at the top of the pedal and the worn clevis pin. I had a similar problem with my GT6 - weld up hole, re-drill and new clevis pin - easy fix. I've never known the original clutch flexible pipe have a problem unless perhaps it's been badly routed, causing it to kink. I've got the original clutch flexi pipes on my TR6, TR7 and a Scimitar, which gets really hot under the bonnet and no problems (yet!). Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 OK many thanks chaps, I will crack on with the pedal etc repair and then go from there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Damson6 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Sorry for the delay but this might help? https://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/Brake-Fluid-Explained.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cew Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 A couple of years ago I had a similar problem solved by Clive Manvers recommending and supplying me with the slave cylinder from, I believe, a Triumph 2000/2500 saloon. I had already fitted a new slave cylinder and master cylinder but replacing the slave did the trick,something to do with it having a different size bore,can't remember if it was bigger or smaller bur it certainly worked for my car been perfect ever since. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hi Just to conclude this thread, I have welded the peddle hole up and re-drilled, fitted new clevis pins and pedal bushes and new push rods. New plastic clutch pipe and seal kit for the slave cylinder. I bleed the system several times with a vizibleed, but still too much movement on the master cylinder push rod. Lots of things went through my mind and having read many posts on the forum regarding bleeding the clutch, I took the decision to bleed it again but this time with just a plain tube on the nipple and my wife pressing the clutch pedal (good old fashioned way) and I was surprised how much more air I got out of the system. The clutch pedal now feels good with good travel at the slave and no slack movement on the master cylinder push rod. I’ve not been able to test drive her yet but I am hoping for a good result (fingers crossed). Many thanks for everyone’s advise . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sounds like a result, well done that man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevo_6 Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks Pete, down to the power of the forum . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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