Space saver spare - What about a TR2/3 wheel?

[TR Tim]

Hi Guys

 

Got the usual problem with my spare not fitting in the boot too well and as im about to fabricate a new spare wheel cover was wondering if a thinner wheel from an earlier car might work and if so what do I need to look for? I might then be able to bridge the hole in the boot with a flat board?

 

Any thoughts

 

Tim

[RogerH]

Hi Tim,

nothing wrong in using a slimmer tyre on a suitable wheel. Either wire or steel wheel would work.

A 165 or 155 will fit nicely in the spare wheel compartment with the board laying flat.

 

If/when using it make sure you drive accordingly.

 

Roger

Edited June 14, 2013 by RogerH

[Bodiam]

Hi, Tim,

 

If you search the main TR forum for "space saver spare wheel", there is an interesting thread which led me to obtain a wheel from a Honda Prelude which enables me to have a flat boot floor.

 

Not everyone is keen on space savers, I know, but as long as they are used correctly, I can't see the harm (though no doubt others will disagree!)

 

Kind regards,

 

John

[Denis]

Why would anyone have trouble fitting the correct size wheel and tyre in the boots wheel well ?

[Stag powered]

I have used a TR2/3 wire wheel with a Citroen 2CV 125x15 tyre as a space saver on my TR250 as I need maximum space for squeezing a paraglider into the boot.

No wheel cover is fitted.

It actually gives much more usable space than the boot on my Stag!

 

Have also used an early TR steel wheel with the same tyre when wires have not been fitted

 

Neil

[Alpha206]

Why would anyone have trouble fitting the correct size wheel and tyre in the boots wheel well ?

 

In my case I've got a non-standard aluminium fuel tank and I'm running 195s - even deflated the tyre doesn't fit under it.

[jean]

I carry the standard 165 wheel/tyre in the boot of my 6. I think the space you gain with a thinner wheel is not to be mentioned ,

After a 500 mile motorway trip on space saver I will never take one along anymore on a longer journey, even in my daily driver. Here, one of my snow tyres on wheel is a much better alternative.

 

And those owners of cars fitted with a spray can and compressor I wish good luck. A tyre on my daily car was wrecked beyond repair by a piece of steel lying around on the road, deflated within seconds

 

If your car is on light alloy wheels don't forget to take some appropriate wheel nuts with you.

[John Morrison]

No No No, absolute folly,

 

these proposals are NOT spacesaver tyres, the best they are are tyre/wheels that will save space.

 

Its illegal to mix, tyre sizes on an axle, full stop.

For very good reasons, and as for 125 section tyres simply because they happen to fit a wheel, a tyre specifically designed for a 2 CV, well that just beggars belief.

 

Illegal, very unsafe and can't we just imagine the **** hitting the fan if and when an accident occurs? they'll throw the book at anyone driving a car so equipped and

absolutly right too!

 

John.

[Alec Pringle]

John is correct, and if you really want chapter and verse see

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31992L0023:EN:NOT - and I suggest for English speakers select the pdf version under EN

 

Standard Triumph did not specify a temporary-use spare tyre option, nor did their successor companies, therefore the question of using any form of 'space saver' does not arise - it is illegal, under any circumstances whatsoever, anywhere in the EC. Period.

 

An 'on the spot fine' and 3 points is the lowest penalty which a copper might choose to hand out in the UK. There is the potential for a wadge of further charges if you really wish to play the gobby clown and wind-up the policeman for a pastime.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Ragtag]

Not that I would, but according to Annex II section 2.1(if I read it correctly) you can't even mix tyre brands on the same axle!

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ragtag

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Chris,

 

that is my understanding too, a restriction which caused a rare old fuss at the time this Directive was introduced, and unusually most countries of the EC chose to ignore this particular detail in their national legislation . . . . along with a few other nitpicking minutiae which might conceivably have owed more to commercial interests than those of safety.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Bodiam]

Hi, Alec,

 

Now you've got me worried.

 

Should I take it that the advice given about space-saver wheels started by Harry in the TR Register Main Forum on May 18 2012 has been overtaken by events?

 

Incidentally, I raised the question of the acceptability of a space-saver wheel with the new TR Register insurance agents and they have notified me in writing that the underwriters are happy for one to be used in accordance with the usual speed restrictions etc.

 

Best wishes,

 

John

[Alec Pringle]

Hi John,

 

the 'events' as you put it happened back in 1992 . . . . nothing new here, then.

 

The 'space saver' situation was then and remains now a grey area - in the UK certainly, and I suspect also in many other EC countries.

 

To utilise any sort of 'space saver' that was not part of the car's original equipment requires, of course, the individual specific approval of your insurers.

 

That does not necessarily mean that the Police or Courts, for example, will agree the legality of fitment, in the event of an accident, or for that matter in any other circumstance - such as being pulled over for a routine roadside check.

 

One thing that is not in question, the 'space saver' has to be appropriately identified as detailed in the Directive, and it is nothing more than a means of getting you to the nearest tyre repair/replacement establishment, as opposed to something which will allow you to complete your journey to wherever. That you might then have to wait a day or two for an appropriate replacement tyre to be sourced is neither here nor there, that delay is not sufficient reason to carry on drving on 3 normal wheel/tyre assemblies and a space saver.

 

I'm well aware that the various motoring organisations have offered a variety of advices and interpretations over the years - in contrast I've run this past several traffic coppers of my acquaintance over the past 20 years, they each offered a much less generous interpretation pretty much in line with the Directive.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[pinky]

hi Alec ,

 

That space saver that you got for me is now illegal I presume

 

As it is not only a thinner tyre but the wrong diameter

 

If I needed to use it i was going to drive to the next garage would that make it ok

 

Pink

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Pink,

 

a lot of folks choose to use space saver tyres which may be technically illegal. Extra boot space is more important to them than a matching spare, and that's a reasonable viewpoint, and is balanced against the small risk of a close encounter with Johnnie Law.

 

The one you have is from a Rover Vitesse Sport, and the diameter of the standard wheel/tyre fitment is the same as a TR give or take a couple of mm. As with most (not all) of the OE space savers I've ever seen, the diameter of the temporary use spare is significantly less than that of the normal tyre - one of several good reasons for the 50mph limit I'd guess ?

 

I've no idea why space savers are so quirky and to my mind illogical, and I think they're a stupid idea anyway - if I'm going somewhere I wish to get there regardless of a puncture, not faff about looking for a tyre shop on a Sunday miles from home . . . . But that's just my opinion, others see things differently as they are quite entitled to !

 

It is worth clearly marking your 'space saver' as such and with its speed limit as required - that should reassure the average sensible bobby that you are not a clot, and that you do appreciate the limitations of your non-OE space saver.

 

Cheers

 

Alec

[Bodiam]

Hi, Alec,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful and well- informed comment, as ever.

 

The "events" I was referring to were the possibility that the 1992 Regs had perhaps been subject to some later interpretation which had rendered obsolete the advice given in the 2012 Forum thread, but this does not seem to have been the case, as far as I can see.

 

Kind regards,

 

John

[cmdr19]

The 'Space-saver' wheel & tyre combo war dreamt up by car makers to save money not space - witness some that are prepared to charge you for a full-size wheel.

 

I'm ok with a 'steely' instead of an alloy (with correct size tyre) as most never see the light of day now that rotation of tyre wear is obsolete. A lot of cars now have different sizes front to rear so a can of whipped cream is supplied with those.

In any case, the law of sod would dictate that you will get a flat when you are touring with boot full to the gunnels (what's a gunnel?), go to put your 'space-saver' on, throw the full-size into the nearest hedge as there's nowhere else to put it (missus lap not a good idea) and drive off into the sunset with one corner looking decidedly droopy.

As for speed restrictions - I've seen complete tos...rs driving at warp speed whilst sporting their bright yellow/orange whatever frisbies.

 

Come on chaps, leave your spare alone...what has it ever done to you. So you can't pack as many sandwiches with it on board!

 

Mike

[pinky]

 

Thank you Alec for yor reassurance ,

 

When traveling with the misses for a week plus sometimes,

space is a premium

 

I have a black polythene bag to put the wheel in

The idea being it sits behind the seats on the shelf well that's the plan

 

Some cars just have a can to blow the tyre up.

 

Pink

[jean]

Pink, blowing the tyre up with a can just covers a simple nail, and only as long as you don't drive it flat. As far as I know it's anyhow only possible with tubeless tyres, and many of us still run on tubes I think.

 

A serious piece of metal will destroy your tyre beyond repair, that's what happend to me on a sunday evening in France.

In my view a standard wheel as spare is fully safe and from the point of view Insurance, no problem as long as a potential accident is not triggert by the this replacement wheel.

[Motorsport Mickey]

OK here is the bottom line, you are driving home after having a puncture, you have fitted your space saver or standard wheel with smaller tyre to the car.

 

You run over a bolt in the road which causes an instantaneous deflation in that fitted tyre, the resultant imbalance causes you to loose control and leave the road travelling down a rail embankment ending up across the train lines. After you stagger out of the car thinking that was lucky ! you watch aghast as the 9:15 from Doncaster hits your car totally destroying it and then you realise that is the least of your problems as the train derails and causes massive damage to the coaches with undoubted fatalities and serious injuries.

 

Your insurance company after receiving the multi million pound claims from Train operators both rolling stock and Network rail for the 300 metres of destroyed track, and now drowning in personal injury claims from solicitors who are responding to " had an accident not your fault ? texts sent out to 25,000 separate people, orders a forensic examination of your car. The engineer reports that apart for the car being in fine mechanical condition there is a discrepancy in the sizing of the deflated tyre which is not a sizing matching the others fitted (that size which you had notified the insurance company about), or indeed it is a non standard wheel and tyre size from any other nefarious vehicle used.

 

Facing a multi million pound claim do you really think that any insurance company would NOT break out the bubbly and breathe a sigh of relief, "got away with that one". I am almost certain they would decline any or all claims or at the very least argue a "contributory" cause argument to their defence. Car gone, house gone, life gone.

 

You may think this scenario unlikely, remember the Land Rover towing a trailer which did almost the same thing where a contributory factor was said to be the drivers lack of sleep ? He's now in jail.

 

Whatever you do ensure you run fully legal tyres and wheels of the appropriate sizes, it's not only your safety it's ours also. Travelling abroad and can't get to the spare wheel ? suggestion, put case and bags inside the boot and the spare on the luggage rack on the boot lid, anything that gives you means to remain legal and denies the insurance companies the wherewithal to wriggle out of paying claims.

 

Mick Richards

[Guest ntc]

Yep

Remember it well Mick I went back to a full size spare

[John Morrison]

Spot on MIck.

 

Whilst talking tyres,

The only SAFE way to confirm that a deflated tyre is safe to use is to strip it off the wheel and examine inside for secondary damage,

hence aerosols of gunge do not fit the bill!

 

John.

[jean]

Mick, don't paint the devil on the wall... following your argument there will be no fully road legal Classic Car on the road, . And 60% of modern carswill not be road legal either.

 

Keep your kids out of school, they might cross the street and trigger a 100 million accident ...

[Motorsport Mickey]

Hi Jean,

 

If you advise your insurance company of any modifications especially tyre sizes and non standard wheels used and they accept them then they have nowhere to go when an expensive payout comes up.

 

If you use wheels or tyres that don't comply and give them a back door don't be surprised when they use it !

 

As for prevention for safety, yes my road car has full safety harness and a roll cage behind the passengers, coupled with a fireproof bulkhead fitted behind the fibreboard to stop 10 gallons of fuel frying the passengers in the event of a roll or intrusion into the shell, I hope for you and your loved ones sake you have similar fitted also.

 

Stay safe !

 

Mick Richards

[jean]

Correct Mick, on both my TR's I have fitted a fireproof bulkhead under the cardboard to seperate the tank from the passenger. It will cope with a fuel splash. I only use the cars for touring but as follow up of a roll in a previous open car I fitted a roll bar and seatbelts. OK this will not be adequate for a a high speed rollover, but will be able to withstand a milder turnover.