Phil Terry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 If you remove the distributor cap and then use the starter, is the rotor spinning ? Spins fine - nice spark at points also Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolboy Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Any chance you got the firing order messed up ? 1 5 3 6 2 4 in a counterclockwise direction, but of course you do have to start off with cylinder #1 ready to fire. Rotor pointing to the #1 wire with the #1 piston up top and both valves closed with .010 lash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Any chance you got the firing order messed up ? 1 5 3 6 2 4 in a counterclockwise direction, but of course you do have to start off with cylinder #1 ready to fire. Rotor pointing to the #1 wire with the #1 piston up top and both valves closed with .010 lash Don't think so Ieven checked and followed the diagram in the handbook - but I will check again Edited April 18, 2013 by Phil Terry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghianightmare Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I take it that nothing in the timing in relation to the dizzy adn TDC has been changed other than installing points and maybe a small movement in the dizzy, so - back on to fuel -Are the plugs wet or dry at this stage? If the fuel mixture is too rich for any reason - and bearing in mind that fuel sitting in carbs for a few months can cause all sorts of problems, what about removing on carb and spraying ehter direct into the manifold. If it splutters or fires then it would point to the carb. at the moment, if there is a problem causing too rich a mixture, then it may not fire even with the ether... a wild card, but everthing else seems to have been tried. google "university motors stromberg" and watch the videos on you tube. might give you some ideas of possible problems with the carbs. Video not as slick as Moss TV, but I find them good and interesting. Clearly i spend too much time researching car stuff on you tube.... must book into rehab.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Spins fine - nice spark at points also If you're getting a fat spark at the points then replace the condenser/capacitor (again?). Also, set the timing by the book using a test meter or test bulb across the points. It will be out if you've converted back from Pertronix as I said before and Neil corroborated. OK, opinions vary about how much out it might be but it might I guess even be possible that it's so different so as to spin the firing order by one position so go back to basics and follow Poolboy's instructions, then set the timing as per the brown bible. Edited April 18, 2013 by peejay4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I think spraying Easy start (Ether) into the carbs and then trying again may be a good thing to try (You may have had this suggestion earlier in the thread). If the engine fires transiently it has to be fueling if it doesn't fire it is ignition. Also find that even if it fires transiently it gives your morale a big boost! Cheers Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thanks for all the tips - Reference the responses to granitemans uneven running question in another post - I suspect it is electrical and the next plan, even though the coil seems to test out OK, is to replace it. Part of my thought process from the onset of the problem was that nothing had been changed mechanically since it last ran - it fired up for a few seconds back at the end of January and then cut-out leading me to speculate that there was an electrical issue and that is what I have been chasing ever since. Along the way I have drained and replaced the fuel just in case of deterioration - although that has never been an issue in previous years - there is now, I realize the timing issue having taken out the Ignitor and put points in but hopefully the new coil will indicate some direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vic Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Might have been asked before and a long shot, but have you got drive to the distributor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Might have been asked before and a long shot, but have you got drive to the distributor? Yes - took the cap off and watched it go round Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pinky Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 If a car won't start it won't start easy start and keep turning it over wont help It is something simple A good trick I learnt was to get some one to turn the car over when this is happening turn the distributor slowly Until it fires Pink Petrol air fire got to be electrical spark is not happening at the right time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 as per Stuarts suggestion flick the points to see if there is a spark. Then release the clamp holding the distributor in place so that you can turn it freely then get some helpful person to turn the engine over whilst you rotate the distributor.Has no one suggested the 180 degrees out yet ? ROY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobinTR6 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Roy suggestion is good but cant be 180 out as it was all working before the lay up and dont think Phil has redone the timing to that extent or the dizzy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 I think you said that you changed the rotor arm. What is the code or number on your rotor arm please? What type of plug leads are fitted? Have you changed them since your troubles began? Rgds Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PJM Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Is the carbon contact in the top of the distributor cap in good condition and making contact with the rotor arm? Insulating washers on points fitted correctly? As Pink says, this has to be something simple Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prefect Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Is it still a problem? With experience, I would suggest the source of your problems is removing the Pertronix, a previously functioning component. If the last time it ran it had Pertronix, I would suggest fitting a new one, if nothing else has changed. apart from that, why haven't been out in your 6 all winter? Good Luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Is it still a problem? With experience, I would suggest the source of your problems is removing the Pertronix, a previously functioning component. If the last time it ran it had Pertronix, I would suggest fitting a new one, if nothing else has changed. apart from that, why haven't been out in your 6 all winter? Good Luck. I think that is an excellent suggestion. It has been too wet - it brightened up beautifully at the end of January which is when I went to go out for run and the problem started. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 19, 2013 Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Even better after 4 pages get a mechanic to come in and start the car Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2013 Even better after 4 pages get a mechanic to come in and start the car High on my list of options! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pinky Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Back to basics Petrol Air Spark Ignition It might run like a bag of **** bit it will run If you got the first three, it has got to be electrical coil ignition something My money is on the ignition spark plugs caps in the wrong position or distributor in the wrong position Something you have done to piss the engine of I thing neil is right get a mechanic and watch him or a local club member we all help each other part of the fun of it all It must be very time consuming I thing the above comments are valid but very confusing if you are a little unsure what you are doing Let us no how it goes kind regards pink Pink Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 At the risk of repeating myself I'll ask again even included some multiple choice answers. I think you said that you changed the rotor arm. What is the code or number on your rotor arm please? DD4 or DD6 What type of plug leads are fitted? Silicon or wire type.? Have you changed them since your troubles began? Yes or no? If you want help and suggestions give us stuff to work with. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 At the risk of repeating myself I'll ask again even included some multiple choice answers. I think you said that you changed the rotor arm. What is the code or number on your rotor arm please? DD4 or DD6 What type of plug leads are fitted? Silicon or wire type.? Have you changed them since your troubles began? Yes or no? If you want help and suggestions give us stuff to work with. Rod When the trouble began I had an unknown rotor arm - changed it to a Lucas from Moss USA - then changed it again to a red one from AccuSpark in the UK Plug leads are Cobalts from Moss USA -don't know if they are silicon or wire these have been on for three years and I have not changed them during the search for a solution. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Many thanks to everybody who has helped to try to solve this problem. It is now on hold until October. I will charge up the battery, disconnect it, put some stabilizer in the fuel and cover it over for the summer then leave for France- hopefully meet up with "kiwifrog" and "cliveinfrance" while I am there. I intend to try and find a local mechanic when I get back - more difficult than you might think in the land of Chevrolets and Fords - current mechanics plug into the diagnostic computer then replace the bit it tells them is faulty. I might have to get the local wrecker service to haul it some distance. There is unfortunately no club or group within a 100-miles which is why I have used this board so extensively. Thanks again for all thesuggestions - I will update you all in the Fall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rodbr Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Hi Phil, Very simple reason for asking is that the rotor arm is extremely important to get the wrigglys to the plugs. Humour me by taking the three rotor arms and checking the length from carbon contact point to the rotor tip. If I am right you might find that your have a 4 cylinder rotor arm and not a 6 hence the question about DD 4 or DD 6.For some reason I thought you had got it from The Dizzy doctor so forget the DD part of it. Lucas and repro ones should have either a four 4 or six 6 stamped on the rotor leg at the end. The problem is that you have changed so much that it is a process of illimination now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted April 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Hi Phil, Very simple reason for asking is that the rotor arm is extremely important to get the wrigglys to the plugs. Humour me by taking the three rotor arms and checking the length from carbon contact point to the rotor tip. If I am right you might find that your have a 4 cylinder rotor arm and not a 6 hence the question about DD 4 or DD 6.For some reason I thought you had got it from The Dizzy doctor so forget the DD part of it. Lucas and repro ones should have either a four 4 or six 6 stamped on the rotor leg at the end. The problem is that you have changed so much that it is a process of illimination now. The red rotor arm that is in it at the moment has a 6 stamped on the rotor leg The original one which came with the vehicle 6 years ago has no marking that I can see nor the Lucas The distance on all of them is around 1.150-inch from the center of the contact point to the tip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PJM Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 I am with Pinky and Rodbr, back to basics and set everything as per the brown bible, being methodical and leaving no steps out, timing, mu timing, drive dog, etc and fresh fuel, battery charged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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