TR6 still won't start.

[Guest ntc]

It could be also down to he just can't catch it after layup? does it try to fire?

Edited April 17, 2013 by ntc

[Rodbr]

I apologise if I have missed it somwwhere but it seems you have changed just about everything, points, condensor, cap, plugs, coil maybe. I do not see if you changed the leads and plug caps anywhere, maybe I did not see that?

 

I had a real ballache with a complete set of new plug caps failed on me.

Are they supressed plug caps? through them away if they are!

Are silicon leads? Through them away as far as you can

Is it push in fitting to dizzy cap? check push in connector makes good contact.

 

What made you suspect the Pertronix had failed?

 

For the cost of a set of new leads and plug caps,in preference make them up yourself and fit them. Then remove all plugs and make a link earth wire so all plug points can be seen but earthed to engine. Turn the engine over and observe the spark and order. You should see clearly that all plugs are sparking and be able to compare brightness of the spark.

 

Plug leads often get overlooked as having been replaced either "some time recently" but more likely a long time ago or never. Particularly silicone leads as they break down.

 

Probably missed it somewhere on the thread but as you tried everything else it seems got to be worth a try.

The above worked years ago on a particularly nasty Triumph 2.5PI.

rgds

Rod

[peejay4A]

Did you reset the timing after removing the Pertronix and replacing with points? If not it will very likely be out so try setting it the old fashioned way.

[Phil Terry]

I did not reset the timing - my reasoning being that even if the timing was way off I should still have got some evidence of it trying to fire - is that incorrect?

[Guest ntc]

I did not reset the timing - my reasoning being that even if the timing was way off I should still have got some evidence of it trying to fire - is that incorrect?

 

yes

 

You will not get start up without

[Phil Terry]

I apologise if I have missed it somwwhere but it seems you have changed just about everything, points, condensor, cap, plugs, coil maybe. I do not see if you changed the leads and plug caps anywhere, maybe I did not see that?

 

I had a real ballache with a complete set of new plug caps failed on me.

Are they supressed plug caps? through them away if they are!

Are silicon leads? Through them away as far as you can

Is it push in fitting to dizzy cap? check push in connector makes good contact.

 

What made you suspect the Pertronix had failed?

 

For the cost of a set of new leads and plug caps,in preference make them up yourself and fit them. Then remove all plugs and make a link earth wire so all plug points can be seen but earthed to engine. Turn the engine over and observe the spark and order. You should see clearly that all plugs are sparking and be able to compare brightness of the spark.

 

Plug leads often get overlooked as having been replaced either "some time recently" but more likely a long time ago or never. Particularly silicone leads as they break down.

 

Probably missed it somewhere on the thread but as you tried everything else it seems got to be worth a try.

The above worked years ago on a particularly nasty Triumph 2.5PI.

rgds

Rod

At the suggestion of badshead I ran this test on the Pertronix and got a constant reading

Procedure to check the Pertronix Ignitor using a voltmeter:

1. Connect Ignitor plate to battery -ve terminal

2. Connect the red Ignitor red to the battery +ve terminal

3. Attach the black lead from the voltmeter to the black lead on the Ignitor

4. Attach the red lead from the voltmeter to the Ignitor red wire

5. Rotate the magnetic sleeve in front of the Ignitor module; the voltmeter should fluctuate between 0 & battery voltage.

6. A constant reading suggests that the module has failed (transistor or hall cell dead)

 

 

[Phil Terry]

 

yes

 

You will not get start up without

How far off is the timing likely to be between the set-up for the Pertronix and for conventional points?

[Peter Cobbold]

If you get no sign at all of coughing or spluttering when cranking it points to lack of spark. If you have been testing for spark by flicking the points as Stuart suggested that does not mean it will spark when cranking. Try cleaning the smaller wires coming off the top of the starter solenoid.

Peter

[Phil Terry]

If you get no sign at all of coughing or spluttering when cranking it points to lack of spark. If you have been testing for spark by flicking the points as Stuart suggested that does not mean it will spark when cranking. Try cleaning the smaller wires coming off the top of the starter solenoid.

Peter

 

" Try cleaning the smaller wires coming off the top of the starter solenoid"

 

More guidance please - what am I looking for and where?

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

We always used to shrew the TR the tow rope and the Land Rover just before adding a fresh gallon of petrol...

It knew the indignity that would follow if it refused to start.

 

 

A gallon of fresh petrol and warming the plugs mostly fixed the not wanting to start attitude.

The easy start spray was always a good starting assistant. A good spray of WD40 on the electrickery bits too. The other top tip was to not change anything if it had been left over winter and had worked when put away.

Edited April 17, 2013 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Phil Terry]

We always used to shrew the TR the tow rope and the Land Rover just before adding a fresh gallon of petrol...

It knew the indignity that would follow if it refused to start.

If only........................

[Guest ntc]

If you have set the points right and have spark swing the dizzy until it fires then set the dwell

[Peter Cobbold]

 

" Try cleaning the smaller wires coming off the top of the starter solenoid"

 

More guidance please - what am I looking for and where?

 

 

" Try cleaning the smaller wires coming off the top of the starter solenoid"

 

More guidance please - what am I looking for and where?

The starter solenoid is the small cylinder sitting on top of the starter. The terminals can corrode and I think one of the wires provides full 12 volt juice to the coil when the starter is cranked. Dont have wiring diagram in front of me... its in a very cold garage ( envious of our heated garage).

[poolboy]

How far off is the timing likely to be between the set-up for the Pertronix and for conventional points?

 

................................................................................................................................................................................................

I find you will have to rotate the dizzy clockwise a few degrees to get the timing back to where it was when the contact points were breaking.

It makes a difference in performance but not enough to prevent the engine from starting..at least that's my experience.

Edited April 17, 2013 by poolboy

[Phil Terry]

 

The starter solenoid is the small cylinder sitting on top of the starter. The terminals can corrode and I think one of the wires provides full 12 volt juice to the coil when the starter is cranked. Dont have wiring diagram in front of me... its in a very cold garage ( envious of our heated garage).

Not a heated garage - ambient temperature is 30C and humidity 70% at the moment!

[Phil Terry]

 

How far off is the timing likely to be between the set-up for the Pertronix and for conventional points?

 

................................................................................................................................................................................................

I find you will have to rotate the dizzy clockwise a few degrees to get the timing back to where it was when the contact points were breaking.

It makes a difference in performance but not enough to prevent the engine from starting..at least that's my experience.

 

 

 

That was my thinking "It makes a difference in performance but not enough to prevent the engine from starting..at least that's my experience"

[stuart]

You have cleaned the faces of the new points off with some glass paper I presume as they are coated to prevent tarnishing and wont make very good spark otherwise.

Stuart.

[Phil Terry]

You have cleaned the faces of the new points off with some glass paper I presume as they are coated to prevent tarnishing and wont make very good spark otherwise.

Stuart.

Yup - cleaned them off with fine emory paper before installation.

[Peter Cobbold]

Further to above about cleaning the starter solenoid:

"With a ballast coil, the starter relay 1 by-passes the ballast resister when the starter motor is spinning the engine, and applies the full 12 volts to the coil. Since the coil is designed to provide full spark with reduced voltage, the application of the full 12 volts produces a much hotter spark, which is an aid in starting. After the engine starts, and the starter motor is off, the coil voltage is dropped to the lower voltage, and the coil output is the same as for a non-ballast coil. The reason the ballast type coil is not run at the full 12 volts, for a hotter spark, is to prevent damage to both the coil and the points."

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/ballast.shtml

[Phil Terry]

Further to above about cleaning the starter solenoid:

"With a ballast coil, the starter relay 1 by-passes the ballast resister when the starter motor is spinning the engine, and applies the full 12 volts to the coil. Since the coil is designed to provide full spark with reduced voltage, the application of the full 12 volts produces a much hotter spark, which is an aid in starting. After the engine starts, and the starter motor is off, the coil voltage is dropped to the lower voltage, and the coil output is the same as for a non-ballast coil. The reason the ballast type coil is not run at the full 12 volts, for a hotter spark, is to prevent damage to both the coil and the points."

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/ballast.shtml

The coil is a 3-ohm without external ballast resistor

[poolboy]

How many wires coming from the Triumph wiring harness are attached to the POSITIVE terminal of the coil ?...Don't count the one from the Pertronix if it's still installed.

[Phil Terry]

How many wires coming from the Triumph wiring harness are attached to the POSITIVE terminal of the coil ?...Don't count the one from the Pertronix if it's still installed.

One- a white one about 6-inch long coming out of the loom in-line with the center of the front left hand wheel.

 

PM sent

Edited April 18, 2013 by Phil Terry

[poolboy]

Ok. then try this.

Remove that wire, just pull it off and put something over the connector on the end of that wire so it won't touch anything metal while you try what I'm about to suggest..

Understand, this is just a test, it's temporary just to see if the engine starts.

Make up a jumper wire that you can connect to the positive terminal of the car battery to the positive terminal of the coil.

Once connected and without wasting too much time, see if the engine starts.

[Phil Terry]

Ok. then try this.

Remove that wire, just pull it off and put something over the connector on the end of that wire so it won't touch anything metal while you try what I'm about to suggest..

Understand, this is just a test, it's temporary just to see if the engine starts.

Make up a jumper wire that you can connect to the positive terminal of the car battery to the positive terminal of the coil.

Once connected and without wasting too much time, see if the engine starts.

Turns over fine but will not start.

[poolboy]

If you remove the distributor cap and then use the starter, is the rotor spinning ?