TR6 still won't start.

[Phil Terry]

History so far - 1973 TR6 CF5526U

 

Tried to fire it up after the winter lay-over at the end of January - fired up for a few seconds then died since when nothing.

 

Initial inspection seemed to indicate that there was no spark.

 

The previous owner had fitted a Pertronix Ignitor which I tested and got results indicating that it was faulty so I replaced it with standard points and capacitor. Seemed to get a decent spark on at least one of the plugs when I tested it.

 

Tried to start - nothing!

 

Suggestion that old gas might be an issue ( although this have never been a problem before during the six years I have owned it) - drained tank - put in fresh gas with octane booster squired some cold start ether into the air intake - nothing!

 

Cranks well - builds up good oil pressure just from cranking - but no sign of any attempt to fire.

 

Any final suggestions before it goes on ebay "as-is where-is"

 

 

[Nick Jones]

Try a different rotor arm.....

 

Presume it is on carbs - is fuel getting through? Are the plugs getting wet? Incidently, if they are newish NGK plugs, my experience has been that once that have been wetted with fuel (flooded) they never work again.......

 

Nick

[Phil Terry]

It is on carbs yes. Put in a new rotor arm and distibutor cap. The plugs are a new set of Autolite and they are wet.

[stuart]

As stated now you have spark try a new set of plugs, some types dont like getting wet when new for some reason but once run for some mileage they are Ok and dont mind it.

Stuart.

[Ghianightmare]

Spray ether/ quick start into the inlet manifold while cranking- if it fires and starts to splutter, then ignition at least is alive which would point to a fuel prob.

Quick start is my friend. Tells me a lot about what the engine isn't doing for only a few quid

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ghianightmare

[Steves_TR6]

I guess it could be old fuel, and even with a fresh tank you've still got pipes and carbs full of old fuel unless you emptied them?

 

But my vote goes for ignition.

 

try at least cleaning and drying the plugs, or a new set.

 

was also going to suggest that the car doesn't like this cold and wet weather, then i saw your location !

[Phil Terry]

I guess it could be old fuel, and even with a fresh tank you've still got pipes and carbs full of old fuel unless you emptied them?

 

But my vote goes for ignition.

 

try at least cleaning and drying the plugs, or a new set.

 

was also going to suggest that the car doesn't like this cold and wet weather, then i saw your location !

 

 

I drained all the old fuel out of the lines as far as the pump - and I believe I have cranked it sufficiently now to remove the bit between the pump and the carburettors.

As you note - at this location temperature is not an issue - although it is kept indoors a lot to avoid the rain ( we get over 45-inches a year on average).

 

I will give it one more try with a set of warmed plugs - then its down to the Mazda lot to order an MX-5

[PJM]

Change the rotor arm

Edited April 12, 2013 by PJM

[Phil Terry]

Change the rotor arm

Will do - waiting for a "red" one to arrive in the mail.

[Phil Terry]

OK Rotor arm changed (new red one shipped in from the UK) - plugs ( Champion) heated in oven - ether sprayed into air-intake.

 

NOTHING!!

 

Cranks well builds up good oil pressure but no sign of ignition.

 

I am beginning to doubt my observations but I believe there is a spark (I tested one plug at least), after cranking I removed two plugs to check and both were damp and smelled of gas - but not wet.

 

Any final suggestions before I give up and cover it over for the summer?

[Velo-felo]

You need to be sure you have spark or not. If you've fitted points, make sure the insulators are in the right place ( youd be suprised but i bought a non runner GT6 once and thats all it was, owner was gutted when i fixed it before driving it away) plus they need to be clean and close to the right gap, brush not fallen out of the cap and coil lead check for spark by pulling it from the cap and hold close to earth. If you have a decent spark and clean fuel on dry warm plugs, it should go.

Steve

[vic]

Have you tried swapping the coil?

Check all connections for continuity of contact, sometimes what looks like a good joint is in fact faulty.Start with all earthing, then move to high/low tension leads.

Regards

Vic

[Ghianightmare]

sound like ignition if it didn't splutter with the ether

 

Go to mossmotors.com ( the USA site). Click on moss tv. They do (IMHO) brilliant fundamental videos on youtube. There is one on testing the coil and ignition that i watched the other day. Try it.

 

You can also buy the tester that goes between the plug and the wire that light up to show if you are getting a spark at the plug. I used mine for the first time last week. It's a plastic piece about 2 inches long with a piece of wire with a gap so the spark jumps it snd lights it up.

 

What type of carbs are fitted?

[Phil Terry]

I know I am not going to get any sympathy for the next comment but.... it is too hot to work in the garage at the moment!!

 

I will test the spark again tomorrow. As you note gas plus air plus spark equals bang what could be more simple.

[Phil Terry]

sound like ignition if it didn't splutter with the ether

 

Go to mossmotors.com ( the USA site). Click on moss tv. They do (IMHO) brilliant fundamental videos on youtube. There is one on testing the coil and ignition that i watched the other day. Try it.

 

You can also buy the tester that goes between the plug and the wire that light up to show if you are getting a spark at the plug. I used mine for the first time last week. It's a plastic piece about 2 inches long with a piece of wire with a gap so the spark jumps it snd lights it up.

 

What type of carbs are fitted?

Actually I spent nearly an hour on the phone working on the problem with Blaine - the Moss guy who makes the little videos - we did all the tests and everything seemed fine

 

It has twin Stomberg carbs.

[stuart]

Have you got the right coil as with the date of your car I would have thought it should be a ballasted version.

Stuart.

[Phil Terry]

Have you got the right coil as with the date of your car I would have thought it should be a ballasted version.

Stuart.

The coil looks original - the casing shows fretting damage under the clamp but seems to be working.

I tested it and it reads 3-ohms - As the saga above outlines, after it wouldn't start at the end of January I replaced the Pertronix with standard points and condenser, replaced the distributor cap, replaced the rotor (twice) installed new plugs, and drained and refilled the gas. Went through all the ignition diagnostics live with Blaine at Moss on the other end of the phone everything seemed OK.

 

Now confused as to what to try next

[stuart]

With the distributor cap removed check for spark at the points by flicking them open with a screwdriver, then with the assistance of someone else check that you still have a good fat spark when the engine is turned over on the key as this will determine if the ballast system is working OK.

Stuart.

[Phil Terry]

With the distributor cap removed check for spark at the points by flicking them open with a screwdriver, then with the assistance of someone else check that you still have a good fat spark when the engine is turned over on the key as this will determine if the ballast system is working OK.

Stuart.

 

I will check later in the week when my "assistant" is avialable. The one thing that I still suspect is that the spark may be weak at the plugs The points sparked fine when I tested them last week but the coil may not have completely failed but might be on its way out. I was considering a replacement like the one offered by Pertronix.

 

Separate PM sent also

[Ghianightmare]

Are you getting a spark when cranking as opposed to getting a spark with the ignition in on position. I.e. just rule out a problem with the ignition switch.

If you need to check, disconnect small wire from starter motor ( so it won't crank) connect volt meter to coil power supply wire, turn key to spring loaded/cranking position and see if you still have 12v.

 

Just an idea.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Ghianightmare

[Phil Terry]

Are you getting a spark when cranking as opposed to getting a spark with the ignition in on position. I.e. just rule out a problem with the ignition switch.

If you need to check, disconnect small wire from starter motor ( so it won't crank) connect volt meter to coil power supply wire, turn key to spring loaded/cranking position and see if you still have 12v.

 

Just an idea.

The ignition switch checks out fine. The problem lies somewhere beyond that.

 

Edited April 16, 2013 by Phil Terry

[Ghianightmare]

Coils are relatively cheap - I have a flame thrower with the pertronix ignition. Very happy with it, so do like you were thinking and buy one.

 

Had a problem with the coil in my rover last year. It was a new coil but was breaking down over 3000 rpm. Took me a while to figure out as it was new, but strange things happen with coils.

[EXCELSE]

You need a BIG FAT SPARK.

Sometimes you get a spark when plug is out of the engine, but not strong enough to spark under compression in the engine.

I would change the coil.

[RobinTR6]

Phil, if youre not convinced of spark, just remove a plug, earth it on the engine and turn the car over, you should be able to see the spark quite clearly and be able to verify its consistent and in a sequence. If needed you could do a few , one at a time. Given youve replaced most of the likely failure points (including the rotor arm), if there a consistent spark, it correctly timed, and a bit of fuel she should fire up.

[Ghianightmare]

Good point Excelse -

 

Ditto on the spark being OK out of engine but not OK under compression where it takes more energy for the spark to jump the gap.

 

Some explanation here http://www.acuravigorclub.com/Timely-Topics/Timely1104-2.htm