TR2/3/3A Cockpit cappings

[TR 2100]

I’m curious to know what material was used, alloy or steel, for the various items of cockpit capping.

I’ve seen a few varieties of these but I’m not 100% sure of all the facts.

 

Door capping

TR2/3 door cappings had a plain trimmed end – TR3A cappings had a chrome button in the end.

The base section for TR3A cappings was steel – was the base unit for TR2/3s steel or alloy?

I assume the change from trimmed end to the chrome button came with the TR3A - is that right?

 

Elbow capping

TR2s had a capping in alloy that fitted over the top of the quarter panel capping – this had a

‘step’ in the capping to allow this.

TR3/3As had a steel capping that fitted under the interior trim and did not have a ‘step’.

What about TR3s – when was the change to the capping that went under the interior trim panel?

 

Short rear capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Long rear capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Front bulkhead capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Some of the answers may be in the Parts Book, by way of changed part numbers,

but I don’t have my copy to hand.

 

AlanR

[Guest colinTR2]

Alan

My 2 is 7019, august 1955. All my cappings are aluminium, bought the car in '71 and recovered them around 1990 to complete the rebuild.

Hope this contributes??

cheers

Colin

[TR 2100]

Alan

My 2 is 7019, august 1955. All my cappings are aluminium, bought the car in '71 and

recovered them around 1990 to complete the rebuild.

Hope this contributes??

cheers

Colin

 

 

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks, and a definite yes.

 

Please confirm this includes the door capping base unit as

I have never stripped an early unit to the base section.

 

AlanR

[Menno van Rij]

On my -post 60001- car, the rear cappings are alloy and they are quite soft and easily distorted. The dog leg and door cappings are steel ones with the chrome buttons. And, to be honest, I think that the bulkhead capping on my car is steel: it was quite heavy compared with the other parts. But then again, there's more material used for this part, obviously it's heavier than the other parts.

 

It took me a lot of time to sort out the back capping's curves: when I removed the old material, the glued parts disformed the shape of the curves. You should try to prevent that.

 

Menno

[angelfj]

I’m curious to know what material was used, alloy or steel, for the various items of cockpit capping.

I’ve seen a few varieties of these but I’m not 100% sure of all the facts.

 

Door capping

TR2/3 door cappings had a plain trimmed end – TR3A cappings had a chrome button in the end.

The base section for TR3A cappings was steel – was the base unit for TR2/3s steel or alloy?

I assume the change from trimmed end to the chrome button came with the TR3A - is that right?

 

Elbow capping

TR2s had a capping in alloy that fitted over the top of the quarter panel capping – this had a

‘step’ in the capping to allow this.

TR3/3As had a steel capping that fitted under the interior trim and did not have a ‘step’.

What about TR3s – when was the change to the capping that went under the interior trim panel?

 

Short rear capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Long rear capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Front bulkhead capping

I think this was made in alloy, at least until the tooling changes at TS 60,001.

After TS 60,001, was this base unit alloy or steel?

 

Some of the answers may be in the Parts Book, by way of changed part numbers,

but I don’t have my copy to hand.

 

AlanR

 

 

 

Alan: Here is a definitive section from the TRA Concours Judging Guide. I have found this to be correct based on the cars I have restored.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Cheers, Frank

 

D. Quarter Elbow Capping - There were two types of quarter elbow capping fitted to the cars. All were trimmed

in leather or vinyl, depending upon the trim of the seats specified to the particular car.

TS 1 through TS 22013 had an aluminum elbow panel with a raised ridge running down the length of it where

the quarter casing panel would fit beneath. From TS 22014, the elbow cappings were steel, trimmed in leather or vinyl, and lacked the raised ridge, as the quarter casings fit over top the elbow capping at this point.

 

E. Tonneau Trim Capping and Center Tonneau Trim Capping - These three panels were made of soft

aluminum and covered in unpadded vinyl to match the trim.

- TS 1 through TS 22013 had tonneau trim capping fitted overtop the quarter casing panels. In addition,

there was a very slight changes of the pattern at TS 8637 which is hardly noticeable.

- At TS 22014, the tonneau trim capping fit beneath the quarter casing panels.

The center tonneau trim capping was changed at TS 22014. The change is not readily noticeable.

Tonneau trim capping were held to the body by chromed #4 trim screws and cup washers. In addition, there

was a stud for cars equipped with tonneau covers at the rear of the tonneau trim capping. On all cars, the

tonneau trim capping fit overtop the center tonneau trim capping.

 

F. Door Edge Roll Trim - The door edge roll trim was a steel capping with a channel along the top edge into

which a sponge rubber roll was glued. At either end, a vertical brace was welded into place to help secure the

sponge rubber roll. The assembly was then smoothed out with cotton wadding and covered in leather or vinyl

to match the trim of the car. Two types of door edge rolls were fitted.

TS 1 through TS 22013 had door edge roll trim in pieces with the leather or vinyl folded over the end braces

and glued into place. This gave the roll trims a "solid" appearance when the doors were open.

From TS 22014, the braces at either end of the roll trims were changed to a cup shape into which the leather

was glued, and a chromed button with a spring clip was fitted.

 

G. Scuttle Edge Roll Trim - The aluminum scuttle edge roll trim was covered in leather or vinyl to match the trim

specification, and held to the scuttle by #4 chromed trim screws and cup washers, and the tonneau fixing studs.

From TS 6157, a scuttle vent was introduced, and the control cable ran through the scuttle edge roll at the

center.

 

Triumph Register of America

Judging Standards

and Restoration Guidelines

February 1993 Edition

May 2004 Revision

[TR 2100]

Alan: Here is a definitive section from the TRA Concours Judging Guide.

I have found this to be correct based on the cars I have restored.

Hope this helps!

Cheers, Frank

 

 

Hi Frank,

 

Many thanks for that. The details given certainly don't contradict

anything I know so I would go along with that.

 

Except - still waiting for confirmation from ColinTR2 that the door

capping was always steel. That would make sense, as welding on of an

end plate would be required.

 

AlanR

[Don Elliott]

On my early (TS 27489 LO) TR3A, all were alloy but the dog leg was steel. As for the top of the doors, mine still had the wooden inserts all along the top with the hollow half-round where the rather stiff foam sponge rubber sat. This was covered with vinyl with a shiny cap at each end on each door. When I restored mt TR3A from 1987 to 1990, I used red leather all over, made by Jim Hawkins who was then in Witney, Oxen.

[TR 2100]

On my early (TS 27489 LO) TR3A, all were alloy but the dog leg was steel.

 

 

Hi Don,

 

Still some confusion about the door capping. It's not the door itself

I'm querying, it's the trmimmed capping door top roll.

You say all alloy except the elbow capping but I'm sure the door capping

base unit must have been steel.

 

When I restored mt TR3A from 1987 to 1990, I used red leather all over,

made by Jim Hawkins who was then in Witney, Oxen.

 

 

Ah yes, I remember it well. If you recall, we both approached Jim Hawkins separately

with original unfaded colour samples, requesting leather trim the same colour.

Jim could see our samples were identical and arranged for some red leather hides to be

custom dyed by Connollys'. Not that expensive, just a bit of waiting time. We had to

wait for the large-order red leather to be done first, our limited production was done

at the end by adjusting the remaining dye.

 

Wish they could still offer that service.

 

AlanR

[stuart]

Alan Im pretty sure my early long door has all ally cappings although I cant say for sure about the door ones as they are in my shed somewhere and Im not about to try digging in there in this weather . If no one else comes up with an answer I will have a look when conditions improve

Stuart.

[Nigel Lay]

All cappings on my 2 are original and ALL are alloy.

Nigel (with TS952)

[Kiwifrog]

Alan

 

My TR2 project TS8442 has aluminum door cappings as well so maybe most TR2s will be the same and the change to steel would have been in TR3 production

 

 

Cheers

 

Alan

[Don Elliott]

Alan - There is no alloy or steel on the top of my door cappings. As you remember, all that was back in 1990. I'm not going to take my doors apart but I seem to remember that there was a steel trough about 1" wide and curved downwards about 1/4" which sat into the same concave contour on top of the wood. All this fitted into the wooden top as in the photo I showed of Brian's spare door above. At each end of this steel "trough" the steel turns upwards. The foam sponge sat in this steel trough and all that was above this foam was (is) the vinyl (or in my case red leather) which was strethed tightly down over the foam sponge. Then the shiny end caps were pushed into place, but there was no alloy or steel top capping under the vinyl for the door tops.

 

On the later post-60,000 TR3A I did, all this sits on top of the concave steel trough which forms the top contour on the mostly-steel door. There is no "capping".

[Rodbr]

My early 2 has all alloy dash crash bar.

Doors caps are concave alloy trough with the rubber elbow pad, the leather is cut and shaped round ends, The main leather is over top of this and glued on the inside.

S shaped ones also Alloy covered in leather.no padding just glued direct to alloy

The back deck one is again soft alloy but covered in matching vynide.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Rodbr

[Trevor S]

Alan, The door cappings on my October 54 TR2 are also aluminium (as are all the other cappings). I have another spare set with the vinyl removed if a picture would help. Part numbers for left & right side were 552812 & 552813 respectively up to TS 22013 but then change to 5566** numbers varying with the colour of trim covering and whether leather or vinyide. The aluminium ones don't have the raised circular hollow end piece for a button to be inserted.

In my humble opinion therefore I believe the TRA appear to be incorrect with reference to TR2 steel door cappings on this ocassion.

[roy53]

can also confirm what Colin posted my 1955 TR2 has all alli capings[everyone]

[Alec Pringle]

In the course of ebaying the Alannids Cave TR parts pile I've received no end of email correspondence from TR enthusiasts in the USA - taking issue over one part or another, and the descriptions thereof. Almost to a man they've quoted one or another set of judging guidelines, some correspondents explaining in no uncertain terms that I all too obviously know sod all about TRs, and some insisting that they are experts in the TR world.

 

I'm not a TR expert, and never will be - a reasonable width of accumulated TR knowledge is as much as I'll lay claim to . . . and I learn something new most weeks, often enough on a daily basis, from those more accomplished in their individual areas of interest.

 

But I do get seriously pissed off with these transatlantic tossers quoting their blasted concours judging guidelines as if they were some sort of Holy Grail. I couldn't care less about concours competitions, if I never see another I'll be a happy man - that doesn't take away from the fact that it's good to see a mix of original cars along with the evolved versions. What these wretched knowall Yanks can't seem to take on board is the reality of production at Standard Triumph, Leyland, and latterly BL.

 

Standard Triumph and it's latter owners bought in a higher proportion of components, sub-assemblies and assemblies than any other significant car manufacturer in Europe. Therefore they were always at greater risk of supplier problems interrupting car production, so on occasion items got substituted by whatever would do the job. Similarly Standard Triumph and its subsequent groupings were proverbially ever short of cashflow, and when needs must the devil drives. So again, what could do the job, on occasion had to do the job.

 

It's futile and ridiculous to get over anal about too many fine details - that's not how the ruddy cars were built. It's high time that some of the over-eager correspondents sat down with a few good histories of Standard Triumph and other British manufacturers, and took on board the realities of UK car manufacturing in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

 

No offence intended to any of the Forum regulars from across the water, least of all Frank, but this little matter of cappings does illustrate how careful we have to be in terms of assessing 'originality' . . . it's a will of the wisp !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[Bob Brennan]

In the course of ebaying the Alannids Cave TR parts pile I've received no end of email correspondence from TR enthusiasts in the USA - taking issue over one part or another, and the descriptions thereof. Almost to a man they've quoted one or another set of judging guidelines, some correspondents explaining in no uncertain terms that I all too obviously know sod all about TRs, and some insisting that they are experts in the TR world.

 

I'm not a TR expert, and never will be - a reasonable width of accumulated TR knowledge is as much as I'll lay claim to . . . and I learn something new most weeks, often enough on a daily basis, from those more accomplished in their individual areas of interest.

 

But I do get seriously pissed off with these transatlantic tossers quoting their blasted concours judging guidelines as if they were some sort of Holy Grail. I couldn't care less about concours competitions, if I never see another I'll be a happy man - that doesn't take away from the fact that it's good to see a mix of original cars along with the evolved versions. What these wretched knowall Yanks can't seem to take on board is the reality of production at Standard Triumph, Leyland, and latterly BL.

 

Standard Triumph and it's latter owners bought in a higher proportion of components, sub-assemblies and assemblies than any other significant car manufacturer in Europe. Therefore they were always at greater risk of supplier problems interrupting car production, so on occasion items got substituted by whatever would do the job. Similarly Standard Triumph and its subsequent groupings were proverbially ever short of cashflow, and when needs must the devil drives. So again, what could do the job, on occasion had to do the job.

 

It's futile and ridiculous to get over anal about too many fine details - that's not how the ruddy cars were built. It's high time that some of the over-eager correspondents sat down with a few good histories of Standard Triumph and other British manufacturers, and took on board the realities of UK car manufacturing in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

 

No offence intended to any of the Forum regulars from across the water, least of all Frank, but this little matter of cappings does illustrate how careful we have to be in terms of assessing 'originality' . . . it's a will of the wisp !

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

 

Yeah, but Alex, "offence" is spelled with an "s".

 

Best regards,

Bob Brennan

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Bob,

 

on this side of the pond it's an offence, how our American friends malign the English language is their concern, not mine . . . .

 

And it's Alec with a C not an X if you really wish to be pedantic !

 

No umbrage taken, I hasten to add . . .

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[BrianC]

I do get seriously pissed off with these transatlantic tossers quoting their blasted concours judging guidelines as if they were some sort of Holy Grail.

...

What these wretched knowall Yanks can't seem to take on board is the reality of production at Standard Triumph, Leyland, and latterly BL.

 

Oops, there goes the Brown & Bliar 'Special Relationship'

 

Excellent point though and I'm in total agreement about the slavish obsession with derived concours specifications. Possibly not quite as bad this side of the water, but slowly getting that way I suspect judging by the prices some of the Alannidscave original items are fetching. I haven't managed to win anything yet!

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Brian,

 

our numerous American correspondents on the Forum don't come into the anal retentive category to which I was referring . . . I guess the real obsessives don't necessarily wish to pronounce in public, in case someone takes the mick in response.

 

All too clearly some of those who email me haven't a clue who 'alannidscave' on eBay really is - one cheerful chap suggested that I ought to look at this Forum, then I might learn something about TRs. Fair comment, I learn a lot from the experience and knowledge of others on this Forum.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[TR 2100]

But I do get seriously pissed off with these transatlantic tossers

quoting their blasted concours judging guidelines as if they were

some sort of Holy Grail.

 

 

I think we need to put this into perspective.

 

The thread started as a query on what was fitted as original.

The US concours rules do set out very clearly (one minor aberration)

exactly what was fitted, and they were only quoted on this thread in

answer to that query.

OK, so if you want to enter a concours (in the US), you know what the

judges are looking for.

 

The rules don't say that anyone Must, or even should,follow the guidelines

for their own car - it's always up to the owner. That's where some people

go wrong - putting forward the view that cars should be kept as original.

 

We all get a lot of satisfaction getting our TRs just how we want them to be.

For some, that means little details that reflect how the cars were built.

Some want to polish them even more and make them unlike any car that left

the factory, others just want to keep their cars on the road, others race.

There's room for all of us - no need for backbiting.

 

As for some of the comments made on alannidscave items, Alec and I are both

fully committed to describing items accurately, to the point of withdrawing

one item recently where there was some doubt.

To that extent, we welcome comments.

 

But yes, there are those who look to nitpick and profess knowledge that

they do not have - so often, it's opinion based on their own limited

experience rather than knowledge.

The real experts usually know how much they don't know.

 

BrianC, with so many repro items on the market, I think people are reassured

by the background to alaniddscave, knowing that the items offered are as

described, original factory items. I think that is a large part of some of the

prices achieved. Some have surprised me, but there are still some parts that

have gone for (IMHO) bargain prices, and still a few more to come.

 

As for myself, I like to think of myself as knowledgeable, but no expert.

It's over 30 years (just!) since I was messing around with my 3A. I've

forgotten a lot of what I knew, and the extent of knowledge 30 years ago

was much less than it is now.

 

AlanR

[ekamm]

Alec I am on the West side of the pond and have to agree that this concourse **** is unnecessary. I love my TR3A and just want to drive and enjoy it. It is very original, just because I haven't changed anything. I would love to have the weird oops that's not RIGHT part as long as I can continue to drive and enjoy!

[Alec Pringle]

Hi Eric,

 

you might remember that old Procol Harum number . . . "The Devil Came From Kansas" ?

 

I spent a while touring Europe back in '71 with a Kansas guy, unravelling his head from a couple of years in 'Nam. That was in a 3A too. Hell of a car, never let us down, across the Alps and back, and again. Bounced our way in and and out of a few roughhouses and calabooses along the way. That old number was his theme song.

 

Fizz has long gone where all good soldiers go, but I always had a kind of hankering that one day I'd see Kansas . . . sounds like it's still the way he described it all those years ago. Go, not show.

 

Cheers,

 

Alec

[RandallD]

Well, getting back to cockpit cappings, on my 59 3A the door cappings were made of rotten leather, a very moldy hose-like substance, and rust! Fairly certain they were original. Seriously this is a great forum with a fantastic combination of good information, banter and well turned phrases. And Alec has just given me one I just might put on a t-shirt!

 

Cheers,

Randy

Texian, TransAtlantic Tosser, and bon vivant.

[ekamm]

My Aug '59 TR3A has the same disintegrating leather on the dash 50 years now. I will be removing i the next week or so. Th door and dogleg have been redone so it will be interesting to see what is under that hopefully reusable spongy material. What to replace with if it's unusable?