TR3A Overflow bottle.

[dpb]

Hello

 

Mine has an overflow bottle fitted- an oval thinnish shape - a bit like a hot water bottle for your bed. It is mounted behind the wiper motor (which I have been working on) and seems to be forcing the motor away from its intended position.  I guess the bottle can be mounted anywhere, but is there a preferred position?  I note that this is not original kit,   but a search of past threads indicates it is a good idea to fit one, so I may as well use it.

 

Cheers

Dave

====

 

 

[Lebro]

I fitted like in the TR4 position - next to the radiator on left hand side.

Bob

[dpb]

Hi Bob

Ah yes, I have a tr4A,  where it is fitted on the RHS next to the rad.   I'll see if I can find a convenient (i.e easy) spot. 

Cheers

Dave

 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Mine is on the LH inner front wing opposite the distributor/engine mounted coil.

[Charlie D]

1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Mine is on the LH inner front wing opposite the distributor/engine mounted coil.

+1

There is quite a bit of space there.

Be aware though that Marco might be along soon to say you don't need one .

Charlie

[TR Rob]

Not sure why you need one. Mine vents via a pipe to the underside of front valence. If you fill radiator to the correct level there is never any coolant loss.

[Drewmotty]

You shouldn’t need an overflow bottle but a header tank may be useful. 

[RobH]

The system doesn't 'need' an overflow bottle or another header.  It is designed to have air in the top of the radiator and filler neck which.contains any expansion.  There should be no overflow if the radiator isn't over-filled.    There really is no benefit from using it full with an external catch bottle but that is how later cars were arranged and some people feel happier with it that way  -  perhaps because it is a more familiar arrangement. 

 

[iain]

43 minutes ago, RobH said:

The system doesn't 'need' an overflow bottle or another header.  It is designed to have air in the top of the radiator and filler neck which.contains any expansion.  There should be no overflow if the radiator isn't over-filled.    There really is no benefit from using it full with an external catch bottle but that is how later cars were arranged and some people feel happier with it that way  -  perhaps because it is a more familiar arrangement. 

 

+1

If its blowing water out its because its over full. The base of the neck should just be wet.

[Z320]

10 hours ago, RobH said:

The system doesn't 'need' an overflow bottle or another header.  It is designed to have air in the top of the radiator and filler neck which.contains any expansion.  There should be no overflow if the radiator isn't over-filled.    There really is no benefit from using it full with an external catch bottle but that is how later cars were arranged and some people feel happier with it that way  -  perhaps because it is a more familiar arrangement. 

 

I‘m convinced they fitted a overflow bottle with the 4A

because customers constantly overfilled the rad and

complained about loosing coolant.

I‘m also convinced a TR6 runs lovely without overflow bottle

and enought air in the rad, like my 4A did many years.

I fitted a overflow bottle, listening on others, but - it is ALWAYS empty.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited March 22 by Z320

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

A bit like…..Oil or grease in your trunions?

Personal choice based on specialist biased fictional fact

[Z320]

Hi Peter,

when other TR drivers discover my Peugeot bleeding system under the bonnet 

and I explain how it effects nothing - there is always a interesting and always different reaction.

I love that and keep it on the engine,

while the thermometers are out after my petrol temperature experiment.

Ciao, Marco 

Edited March 23 by Z320

[Trumpy3]

HI.

I know this is an old thread but would like to add a comment. I have had some experience with the design and operation of modern cooling systems. I'm no expert but have enough knowledge to be a little dangerous.

The early "overflow" bottles are in fact recovery bottles. They were introduced to reduce the need to remove the rad cap to check the coolant level and retain the concentration of coolant additives ( antifreeze and corrosion protection). They require a recovery cap to work. These are caps with a top seal to prevent the coolant from  spilling past the cap was engine heats up. In Australia, these are hard to find for a long neck cap as fitted to the early TRs. The line from the radiator must run to the bottom of the recovery bottle.

As the name suggest, the coolant flowing to the recovery bottle is returned to the radiator as the system cools via the low pressure valve in the radiator cap. This is why you must use a recovery cap with this type of system. All this ensures that no coolant is dumped during warm up but simply recycled. The bottles are see through so the coolant level can be checked without the need remove the cap. This is particularly advantageous with the TR as there is no need to stress the top tank extension which leads to a lot of radiator leaks.

The latest systems were introduced because of the intricacies of the modern systems with heating and cooling pipes going every where and the common use of cross flow radiators. Apart from coolant recovery, it also adds a self bleeding function with return bleeds from high points in the system. For this system to work the recovery bottle must be more robust and pressurized. As such it houses the pressure cap.

I use a Volvo 240 radiator on my 3A, and a latter Volvo recovery bottle with a 10psi cap. Never need to remove the cap and the coolant is not diluted with continuous top up. This has been in use now for some 14 years and included around 6 years of track work.

Brian

[iain]

6 hours ago, Trumpy3 said:

HI.

I know this is an old thread but would like to add a comment. I have had some experience with the design and operation of modern cooling systems. I'm no expert but have enough knowledge to be a little dangerous.

The early "overflow" bottles are in fact recovery bottles. They were introduced to reduce the need to remove the rad cap to check the coolant level and retain the concentration of coolant additives ( antifreeze and corrosion protection). They require a recovery cap to work. These are caps with a top seal to prevent the coolant from  spilling past the cap was engine heats up. In Australia, these are hard to find for a long neck cap as fitted to the early TRs. The line from the radiator must run to the bottom of the recovery bottle.

As the name suggest, the coolant flowing to the recovery bottle is returned to the radiator as the system cools via the low pressure valve in the radiator cap. This is why you must use a recovery cap with this type of system. All this ensures that no coolant is dumped during warm up but simply recycled. The bottles are see through so the coolant level can be checked without the need remove the cap. This is particularly advantageous with the TR as there is no need to stress the top tank extension which leads to a lot of radiator leaks.

The latest systems were introduced because of the intricacies of the modern systems with heating and cooling pipes going every where and the common use of cross flow radiators. Apart from coolant recovery, it also adds a self bleeding function with return bleeds from high points in the system. For this system to work the recovery bottle must be more robust and pressurized. As such it houses the pressure cap.

I use a Volvo 240 radiator on my 3A, and a latter Volvo recovery bottle with a 10psi cap. Never need to remove the cap and the coolant is not diluted with continuous top up. This has been in use now for some 14 years and included around 6 years of track work.

Brian

Interesting, however if the recovery bottle can still be pressurised, so is the whole system. I therefore believe the stresses on the expansion neck of the radiator are the same ? 
 

For comparison my Elan has a Standard Triumph radiator( Spitfire I think) pressured with a Recovery system cap  and a Tudor ( windscreen washer plastic bottle) as the recovery vessel. (Minute air bleed in lid.)This is original standard equipment.

 

Edited April 2 by iain

[Lebro]

    I think the stesses refered to are not internal pressure, but mechanical pressure exerted when undoing the cap.

I have the non pressurised recovery bottle system on my TR3, as Brian says it's difficult to find a "long" rad cap with the top seal required for the recovery to work, they normally just have a sprung metal disk. I modified my cap to have a rubber seal in the top, & it all works well. I can fill the rad almost to the top, & that level stays there, excess coolant being tranferred to the bottle as it heats up, then being sucked back into the rad as it cools down.

Bob

     click on to enlarge

Edited April 2 by Lebro

[Trumpy3]

Bob

Spot on.

Brian

[stuart]

The stresses on the neck mostly are due to more basic things like people leaning on the neck when doing simple maintenance under the bonnet

Stuart.

[Trumpy3]

Every time the radiator cap is removed/refitted, the top Tank/extension is placed under stress. Removal of this stress is a plus as is the reduction of the concentration of the cooling fluid caused by the top ups.

Brian

[RobH]

28 minutes ago, Trumpy3 said:

Removal of this stress is a plus as is the reduction of the concentration of the cooling fluid caused by the top ups.

Why should you need to keep topping up?  Just don't over-fill it in the first place.

Removing and replacing the pressure cap doesn't stress the neck if done properly because the force required is a twisting one. You don't need to lean on it, it screws itself down with a finger-tip twisting motion. 

 

Edited April 2 by RobH