Valve adjustment query

[Mike C]

5 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I write 1 to 12 (1 2 3 4 etc) on a piece of paper and tick them off.

The major issue with doing them by ear is you close the gap too much and increase the risk the valves aren't closing properly. Burnt out valves and seats and loss of performance and fuel economy.

 

I do that and note the adjustment -tight/loose with an estimate in thou alongside each number. I'm basically trying to keep a tab on which valves could be stretching.

[Z320]

10 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I write 1 to 12 (1 2 3 4 etc) on a piece of paper and tick them off.

The major issue with doing them by ear is you close the gap too much and increase the risk the valves aren't closing properly. Burnt out valves and seats and loss of performance and fuel economy.

 

The way I do it is very safe ( with the engine off):

once adjusted with a feeler gauge I rock them manual by hand.

You will hear (and feel) the ones with too much gap and adjust them until all sound / move the same.

Edited January 8 by Z320

[Kevo_6]

8 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

If you're that worried. Why do it?

I’m not worried at all John, that’s just what I do. I’m happy with it so let’s just leave it there.

[Jonny TR6]

3 hours ago, Z320 said:

The way I do it is very safe ( with the engine off):

once adjusted with a feeler gauge I rock them manual by hand.

You will hear (and feel) the ones with too much gap and adjust them until all sound / move the same.

Printed off a few sheets of paper with the numbers on so I can tick them off as I go along, but agreed, the couple of times I've done it before, you can feel/hear whether a rocker is too loose or tight, after having done a few.

Typically my dial gauge battery was on the way out, so didn't have a play last night.

All good stuff and appreciate all the responses.

Edited January 8 by Jonny TR6

[Tim D.]

5 hours ago, Z320 said:

The way I do it is very safe ( with the engine off):

once adjusted with a feeler gauge I rock them manual by hand.

You will hear (and feel) the ones with too much gap and adjust them until all sound / move the same.

I take it you do this with the engine fully warm?

[Andy Moltu]

Adjusting by ear has its limitations with many after market camshafts.

Some of these cams will require larger gaps to optimise the timing of valves opening. If your cam needs gaps of say 22 thou it will sound more tappety than a standard cam using 10 thou even if there is no wear in the valve train so simply adjusting the tapping out of it might impact performance.

[Z320]

Fellows, it’s aTR4 and no rocket engine…..

[Z320]

1 hour ago, Tim D. said:

I take it you do this with the engine fully warm?

Why?

[Andy Moltu]

The gap specifications differ. 

Some will specify the gaps with a cold engine, others will specify hot.

A standard cam in the TR 4 cylinder engine Triumph specified the gaps with a cold engine.

[Tim D.]

38 minutes ago, Z320 said:

Why?

I thought the concern was that as the engine warmed up the expansion of the components of the valvetrain meant that the gaps between the rockers of the valves effectively reduced. Hence when you set them cold you set them slightly wider and hence why the cars sound more "tappety" when cold and then  quiet down as they warm up. If you set the gaps so that there is no noise when cold then when hot there is a chance the valves will not be fully closed..

Quite possible I have this wrong. But it was why I understood we set them cold, and using your method it should be done hot.

Tim

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

From the TR3A hand book

 

Valve-Rocker Clearances (measured cold)
On earlier models the running clearances are .010" (0.25 mm.) inlet and
.012" (0.3 mm.) exhaust. Where aluminium rocker pedestals are fitted
(later models) the valve-rocker clearances should be set at 0.010"
(0.25 mm.) inlet and exhaust for both normal and high speed motoring.

 

Edited January 8 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Z320]

53 minutes ago, Tim D. said:

I thought the concern was that as the engine warmed up the expansion of the components of the valvetrain meant that the gaps between the rockers of the valves effectively reduced. Hence when you set them cold you set them slightly wider and hence why the cars sound more "tappety" when cold and then  quiet down as they warm up. If you set the gaps so that there is no noise when cold then when hot there is a chance the valves will not be fully closed..

Quite possible I have this wrong. But it was why I understood we set them cold, and using your method it should be done hot.

Tim

what I do is to adjust due to the manual (cold / 0.010"), nothing else,

with the way I do and check this the common tick-tick-tick has mainly gone,

there is no problem at all

Edited January 8 by Z320

[Tim D.]

51 minutes ago, Z320 said:

what I do is to adjust due to the manual (cold / 0.010"), nothing else,

with the way I do and check this the common tick-tick-tick has mainly gone,

there is no problem at all

Aha! that makes total sense.. I do 0.014" as I was advised this was correct for the saloon cam in my TR6.

I use the saloon cam as it has less overlap (helpful with the supercharger!).

Tim

[Z320]

Tim, I know we are drifting, but this is a chat forum?

This new engine with supercharger could be interesting for you

[Tim D.]

Very interesting. Some high pressure in there and a 16:1 CR. I only run 4psi most of the time.

Cheers

Tim

[Jonny TR6]

Got all my valves sorted this evening. As Mike kindly advised, using a dial indicator was a tremendous help. I positioned it on the rocker tip to give the maximum travel and then went through each valve individually, adjusting the gap to 0.010”. Out of the 12 I’d done, doing 2 valves at a time previously, 6 needed a minor tweak, maybe a thou or so. It was handy having the valve open, valve closed numbers printed off, so that I could tick them off as I went. I also dated the sheet and popped it in my TR6 file for posterity.

What it showed me was that the previous method was close enough, but not perfect. I like things to be perfect, so if I’d heard a slight tappety sound when warm I’d have always wondered which valve or two was out. Mind you what else are you going to do on a chilly winter’s evening that’s more enjoyable than adjusting valves…

As a double check to ensure the “drag” of the feeler gauge was correct (it’s a very subjective thing to feel), I tried to get an 11 thou feeler gauge in each time and if it could just slip in, I tightened up the screw a midges.

All in all a very satisfying evening and glad I asked the question in the first place and thanks again to all contributors.

Edited January 8 by Jonny TR6

[stuart]

14 hours ago, Jonny TR6 said:

Got all my valves sorted this evening. As Mike kindly advised, using a dial indicator was a tremendous help. I positioned it on the rocker tip to give the maximum travel and then went through each valve individually, adjusting the gap to 0.010”. Out of the 12 I’d done, doing 2 valves at a time previously, 6 needed a minor tweak, maybe a thou or so. It was handy having the valve open, valve closed numbers printed off, so that I could tick them off as I went. I also dated the sheet and popped it in my TR6 file for posterity.

What it showed me was that the previous method was close enough, but not perfect. I like things to be perfect, so if I’d heard a slight tappety sound when warm I’d have always wondered which valve or two was out. Mind you what else are you going to do on a chilly winter’s evening that’s more enjoyable than adjusting valves…

As a double check to ensure the “drag” of the feeler gauge was correct (it’s a very subjective thing to feel), I tried to get an 11 thou feeler gauge in each time and if it could just slip in, I tightened up the screw a midges.

All in all a very satisfying evening and glad I asked the question in the first place and thanks again to all contributors.

Buy an alloy rocker cover, you`ll never hear the tappets then

Stuart.

[Jonny TR6]

Got one Stuart - will it ever sound like a Singer ? (sewing machine, not Le Mans..)

[michaeldavis39]

An alloy rocker cover masks the noise of the tappets does it Stuart- or are you joking?

[John McCormack]

9 hours ago, michaeldavis39 said:

An alloy rocker cover masks the noise of the tappets does it Stuart- or are you joking?

Yes it does! I have one on the TR6.

[stuart]

17 hours ago, michaeldavis39 said:

An alloy rocker cover masks the noise of the tappets does it Stuart- or are you joking?

It does that a treat

Stuart.

[michaeldavis39]

Interesting as on my rebuilt engine the tappets are not noisy with the original rocker cover on.

[stuart]

16 hours ago, michaeldavis39 said:

Interesting as on my rebuilt engine the tappets are not noisy with the original rocker cover on.

Then they must be adjusted either correctly or tight

Stuart.

[michaeldavis39]

Back in the day I had a mini 1000 and was better at adjusting the tappets than the local "specialist" who made it sound like a bag of hammers! Should sound like a sewing machine- it did with my hands on it, in fact all the early cars I had needed tappets adjusting manually- 1979 Ford Escort mk2 1100- first car and I hated it- no idea why anyone likes those Mk2 Escorts- Citroen BX 1400 - gearbox and engine shared same oil, then the Mini. Now the Triumph 2.5litre which as said has had full rebuild by myself - rocker assembly refurbished by Ivor Searle- new pushrods, new lifters and original 150 pi cam. I always check tappets with cold engine and triple check them ie do full set once then go around them all again twice more- always worked for me and never had any tight ones that way. I sold the mini to my best friend and he did 24k miles in a year in it- I was checking tappets every 3 months for him and could do it from start to finish in half an hour after that year lol

[PodOne]

You can see why hydraulic lifters and shims/buckets found favour!