Esso Supreme no longer ethanol free

[Malcolm Tatton]

Just seen this link on another site, but from September Esso Supreme will no longer be ethanol free.

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels

 

[AndyR100]

Thanks Malcolm, useful to know.

..... Andy

Edited August 17, 2023 by AndyR100

[Lebro]

It is still only "up to a maximum of 5%", could still be zero %, I guess they are covering them selves in case petrol stations formally ethanol free get delivered petrol with a percentage of it in.

Bob

[mikej]

I'd not bet the farm on zero ethanol fuel being available either by declaration (eg Esso) or by a chance it may not be the full 5%.  The "protected grade" has a limited life in any case.  I thought I'd lead they way until cork bits showed up in my SUs!

MJ

[Andy Moltu]

Let’s hope you have cork gaskets made from wine grade material! 

More concerned about some of the other materials.

[Z320]

Here at Germany we get „only“ E5 or E10, since a decade?

Very much has been discussed about possible problems. I never gave so much thoughts on this.

I use always ROZ95 and mostly E10 for my TR4A without problems.

Ciao, Marco 

[mikej]

Marco, How does your Km per Litre compare between E10 and traditional petrol?

It does seem that making our cars resistant to E10 (or better, E20) is the message, great to get more confirmation that life with ethanol is possible. 

[Andy Moltu]

My 4A runs on on E10.

The 6 pinks more on E10 95 than E5 95 even they are notionally the same octane.

To be fair both have increased compression ratios. 

Ethanol has a lower calorific value than regular petrol so likely to see increased fuel consumption. Certainly notable on the BMW but rarely check it on the TRs. 

Is it greener is a one to ponder? Where is the ethanol sourced. Is it the EU wine lake we used to hear about or is much of the ethanol being manufactured from crops requiring damaging farming processes to the detriment of food production?

We discovered at the last European meeting in Sweden that the then TRR chairman’s 4A didn’t run on E80 fuel. Well farted, popped and banged it’s way back to the hotel where it had to be drained. Cheap it was but did work in a TR. The first time I have seen a TR blow smoke rings.

[Motorsport Mickey]

Yawn ! ...been there done that.

Methanol has been present in many fuels since the early 2000s. Coming from a truck background the engineering departments of all manufacturers saw and noted the reduction in MPG (on large trucks with typical 8 mpg their mpg and variations are watched intently, at that level it's  easy to erode, and with vehicle mileages of 250K PLUS per annum or higher ( 3 x drivers giving 24 hour running) soon gives increases in fuel costs of £2-3000 per year). 

Initially at the 5% level (E5) it had been assimilated by users and engineering departments as the 'norm', however there was a certain amount of alarm when E10 was talked about...for this reason

"Poor lubrication properties of methanol and degradation of oil lubrication properties may lead to an increased wear on engine fuel system components. Lubricity additives are needed."

The various truck manufacturers have taken remedial steps with additional lubing systems to help ameliorate the reduction in lubricity in continuing use of E10 fuels, it may be essential that owners of classics take similar steps by an additive...Reddex anybody ? are used in addition with the E10 fuels that will become ever more the norm.  

AMF (iea-amf.org) has information on it.

https://www.iea-amf.org/fuel_information/methanol

Mick Richards

 

[RobH]

The link doesn't work Mick, and it's members only

[Z320]

8 hours ago, mikej said:

Marco, How does your Km per Litre compare between E10 and traditional petrol?

It does seem that making our cars resistant to E10 (or better, E20) is the message, great to get more confirmation that life with ethanol is possible. 

Hi Mike,

I don’t know? I don’t have „traditional“ petrol to compare.

And what can I do with any knowledge about when I don’t get it?

I fitted new Gates hoses when I bought the car in 2009 and there are only a few rubber parts more involved on my SU fired TR.

I never had a problem, and I remember this was also the conclusion of the big German classic vehicle magazine some issues ago.

Ciao, Marco 

[TR NIALL]

We changed to E10 on the 1st July,I filled with E10 and travelled to Silverstone and back with 3 other TR6s I’ve also been to Shepton Mallet with the same Cars and covered 608 miles there and back with no issues whatsoever.

[Motorsport Mickey]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:17 AM, Motorsport Mickey said:

 

Have you compared MPG E10 to E5 Niall, that's one of the areas where it's said to be different. Like most TR owners you may not be afflicted with comparing the distance travelled ?

Mick Richards

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Motorsport Mickey

[TR NIALL]

9 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Have you compared MPG E1 to E5 Niall, that's one of the areas where it's said to be different. Like most TR owners you may not be afflicted with comparing the distance travelled ?

Mick Richards

 

Sorry Mick I gave up calculations long ago,I just fill up drive it on and refill when needed,Happy Days.

[Z320]

32 minutes ago, TR NIALL said:

Sorry Mick I gave up calculations long ago,I just fill up drive it on and refill when needed,Happy Days.

+1

if I would start calculate my hobby I must give it up 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Z320

[ianc]

I have been recording 4VC's fuel consumption since it returned to the road 30 years ago.

Each time I refill the tank (and I always fill to the top), my spreadsheet calculates the figure over the whole of that time - it is consistent and sits at about 23.5 mpg, but allows me to spot any unexpected change.

I do the same for the family cars, too.

My second-hand diesel Citroen Xantia estate averaged 50.32 over 96,321 miles - a marvellous beast which would pull happily from very low rpm.  Just wish my current second-hand diesel Citroen C5, which has more gears (6 instead of 5) and more valves (8 instead of 4 per pot) could do better than 45.74 and had more torque at low rpm - it's gutless below 1500.

Ian Cornish

[stuart]

3 hours ago, ianc said:

  Just wish my current second-hand diesel Citroen C5, which has more gears (6 instead of 5) and more valves (8 instead of 4 per pot) could do better than 45.74 and had more torque at low rpm - it's gutless below 1500.

Ian Cornish

Sadly thas the difference between an 8 valve and a 16, you have to rev the 16 valve to get it to pull whereas an 8 valve has more low down grunt.

Stuart.

[ianc]

You are correct, Stuart, but the change has ruined the enjoyment of the good old Xantia diesel, which was more akin to a tractor engine. 

In fact, my independent Citroen man considers the Xantia to be the best engine they ever produced.   I scarcely ever exceed 3000 rpm with the diesel, so top end performance is of no interest to me.  Grunt and economy are what I like in a diesel !

BTW, I made a mistake - valves have changed from 2 to 4 per pot with the C5.

Ian Cornish