Timber frame in the doors

[Richardtr3a]

This afternoon was a sunny and clear sky, so I chose to strip out the passenger door  lining and find out why my side screen brackets will not stay in the best position.  

I have lined them up with the hard top and cannot get the screws to fix properly into the timber in the door. There are too many past attempts and the timber has too many holes. All my fault.

The timber  needs some dowels. I tried to take out the whole wooden bracket but it did not want to move. The timber has a mahogany tinge and I need some advice on how to  drill and what would be the best timber for the dowel. Where to buy it would help as well. There is also a recess for the Dzus fixings so it looks as if the wood working tools will be coming out of the tool shed. I also need advice on some proper carpenters adhesive.

I am hoping that someone knows the answers. Half way through the work there was a shower for 10 minutes so I had to dry out the inside of the door.

Please help

Thanks Richard & B

[Corkery11]

Soudal 30 Minute D4 Pu Wood Adhesive Liquid Brown.

It sorta slightly foams but the excess scrapes off easily. Leaves your fingers stained black if like me you are slack with wearing gloves.

Apparently......

Classification of wood adhesives is governed by European Standards, ranging from D1 up to D4. The timber adhesives available from Soudal conform to either D2, D3 or D4 DIN EN 204. D4 is the highest grade with optimal water resistance, suitable for application areas with exposure to running or condensed water; this includes exterior applications exposed to weather conditions.

PRO 45P - Fast PU Wood Adhesive 750g

Fast drying water resistant timber adhesive

Open technical data sheet

PRO 40P - PU Wood Adhesive 750g

Water resistant timber adhesive

Open technical data sheet

PRO 30D - Waterresistant Wood Adhesive 750g

Water resistant timber adhesive

Open technical data sheet

Purocol Express (D4) 310ml

PU based construction adhesive

Open technical data sheet

Requirements

 

[Corkery11]

Oh forgot to say, I just used ready made dowels that you can get in various sizes as I had a mixture of holes from tiny to humongous ish.

[Ian Vincent]

I just made new wooden bits to screw into. Not a long job. 
Rgds Ian 

[james christie]

I know a bit about this - I home-made 1200 dowels to fill the holes left by galvanised nails that had corroded, when I restored a 1937 Breton fishing boat some years ago.

The easiest way is to open out all the holes with a drill of appropriate diameter and plug them with dowels which can be bought in any store. Use PU glue as above and then cut the excess off with a Japanese saw.

james

[peter clarke]

I filled the numerous holes in my timbers with dowels glue matchsticks etc and then determined where the screws should go. I then removed the timbers, drilled the holes through and fitted "furniture nuts" into the back face  (as they use on chip board). Machine screw threads as opposed to wood screws for fixing brackets No more issues.

[Richardtr3a]

This sounds like a good answer.  How did you remove the timber ?  Mine seems to be well fixed and I am anxious not to damage the paint in any way. Please send me some tips when Australia is in daytime mode.

Thanks

Richard & B

[Charlie D]

6 hours ago, peter clarke said:

fitted "furniture nuts" into the back face

Peter,

Are they what we call "T-Nuts" ?

https://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nails-fixings/pronged-tee-nuts/cat7280112?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-screwsfixings-_-teenuts

Charlie

[peter clarke]

T nuts they are. Took my timbers out before painting and think there were small wood screws holding them in place otherwise not difficult. Countersink/counter bore the rear before fitting T nuts to ensure no projection and be very careful sizing fixing screw length as if screws too long they will damage door skin.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

On 10/2/2022 at 8:42 AM, Richardtr3a said:

This sounds like a good answer.  How did you remove the timber ?  Mine seems to be well fixed and I am anxious not to damage the paint in any way. Please send me some tips when Australia is in daytime mode.

Thanks

Richard & B

Don’t even try if you are worried about the paint.   The skin on my car was dressed over and nailed to the timber

[Richardtr3a]

It looks as if mine is held on with screws but I have taken out 4 countersink screws and there are no more . The wood will not move even slightly. Also I may need some adjustment for the sidescreens  in the future. The T nuts are a good idea but I think that my A post would need to be a lot stronger for that to be a success.

So this morning I am going to my local timber store for some sapele dowel rod .  I will be drilling the existing holes in the timber to allow 10mm inserts and using D3 glue to reinforce the existing timber. I am hoping that I can slide a thin sheet of metal behind the timber so that the drill does not hit the outside skin of the door. There will be eight holes and I need some luck ,or advice, on how to avoid ending up at the spray shop for repairs to the outer skin.

Thanks Richard & B

[Charlie D]

Richard,

Put some tape around the drill bit to act as a depth gauge or search ebay for  “Drill depth stop” (There are dozens of them). B and

Q may even sell them.

Also don’t use a power drill, use and old fashioned hand drill. 99 pence on eBay. (People less than 60 years old will not know what one of those is.)

Charlie.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Charlie D

[stuart]

Its not an easy job to remove the wood mostly due to the curve on the door matching the curve in the wood so theyre effectively jammed in there plus the fold on the top of the door skin needs to have the clout nails removed and it then needs to be relieved up a bit also. Its not really possible to get them out without paint damage.

Stuart.

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks I am off to Travis Perkins at lunchtime.

Richard & B.

[Richardtr3a]

I tried to buy dowels from Travis Perkins but they only had lengths of timber. I bought 2.4m of 12mm Sapele timber. This afternoon I drilled  the holes in the right places ( I Hope ) and used some adhesive , D 3 ,  to fix small lengths of the 12mm  timber into the door frame. Some of the holes were difficult because the vertical screws fixing the door timber frame together were is the way. Any way eight pieces of new timber are installed and I will leave the glue to dry until the week end .

Tomorrow I will try the hardtop and check out the final positions of the screws. I will mark the new wood with some coloured pen for the moment. This needs to be completed before the Autumn Leaves Run on the 15th October.

How can I speed up the glue drying ???

Thanks Richard & B

[Ian Vincent]

Hi Richard, it may be a bit late now but I would have used an epoxy glue. Something like JB Weld or araldite that sets in 24 hours and can be drilled or machined. It also acts as a gap filler. 

Rgds Ian

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks Ian. A stronger glue would have been better. D3 is strong and has hardened overnight. I will leave it until the week end. I am planning to drill the holes for the screws. How would I be able to work out the correct size drill ?? Trial and error ?

One drop of the glue fell on the grass. It has is still soft and wet this morning ? The dowels are firmly in position held by hardened adhesive.

I will fit the hardtop at the weekend and that will help get the sidescreens in the best location.  But there is some slight movement on the windscreen stanchion.  I am trying to get this right. 

Any advice, Thanks Richard & B

[Lebro]

Is D3 a PVA wood glue? If so it is water soluble, so wet grass would keep it liquid. 

Bob

[james christie]

Here is a useful explanation of the different wood glues. He should be OK with his D3 but D4 would have been better

https://www.adkwik.co.uk/what-are-d2-d3-d4-adhesives/

james

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks for the help. My adhesive is a supplied by a local timber yard and is their own brand. It says D3 and resin based, remove excess with a wet cloth , suitable for outside use but not for underwater installation. The spill on the grass is getting stronger and the doors are well repaired. I am leaving it until the weekend as it is out in the garage and not as warm as in  the house, and the glue instructions extend the full curing time.

I was thinking of D4 but the only one I could find locally was over 20GBP so I decided to use the glue that I had on the shelf.

I am hoping for dry weather Saturday now. Thanks

Richard & B

[Ian Vincent]

Hi Richard, To calculate drill sizes - measure the diameter of the head in sixteenths of an inch, subtract one from the numerator and multiply by two to identify the screw size. E.g. a no. 8 screw has a 5/16” dia head and the unthreaded portion will be 5/32” dia. The pilot hole for the threaded portion needs to be 5/64”. 

Metric is a lot simpler but your wood screws will be imperial. 

Rgds Ian

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks very much for the arithmetic. I am sure it will be useful one day, but this week I have metric screws with no bare shank and do not plan to change them. 

I am sure that if we were in the pub I would have written it all down after a pint of Lager  but I might have trouble passing it on to friends who have the same issue

Thanks for the effort I will let you know what I plan to do at the weekend  before I am wearing my joke overalls.

Richard & B

[Richardtr3a]

The glue is hard and I could not find enough screws to fix the sidescreen plates. I went to two local shops and finally The Nut and Bolt store .  I bought ten screws for 1.o5 GBP. They match the other side  but the petrol to get there and back was over 6.00 GBP

I will have to start allowing for the fuel costs before I go out ??

Richard & B

[Richardtr3a]

Hi,

I have drilled and fitted new dowels in the door. One position needed a second chance so I fitted an extra dowel. It is difficult to mark the holes with the door lining half in place. When you take the lining off completely , it is difficult to correctly fit the dowels in the  exact right position ,  but it is all done now. 

The Sidescreens are fitted and there is no vibration as we drive up to 50 mph. The screens are a good fit and noise and draughts are much less. The hard top bracket, on the front LHS,  was replaced and the  loud  rattling vibration has disappeared. I was lucky to have a new spare in the hardtop fittings box.

I now have a long length of Sapele in the garage. If anyone else is having these troubles I would be pleased to send a 6" length in the post. Send me a message .

Thanks for the advice Richard & B

 

[TRier]

Guys I have just bought a TR3A, it’s been 90% completed by the PO who sadly passed away before totally completing. It needs a little bit of fettling and commissioning so I’ve got to do a little bit of research as I didn’t dismantle the car. I’ve taken one door and door card off to fix a hinge and glue down some of the upholstery and I don’t see any wood and this topic seems to indicate there should be wood inside the door. I’ve taken a few photos of the inside of the door, could any of you send me a photo indicating what’s missing if anything? Everything seems to work ok although the internals of the door handle look ropey and don’t look as  I’d imagine were intended they do work but definitely no wood.

(Apologies the photo looking up inside the door from underneath keeps turning upside down in the upload process).

j

Edited November 28, 2022 by TRier