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Hi All,

Looking for some advice if possible - I have had a trawl through old posts but couldn't spot anything to answer this question directly .......  I whipped the heater of my 4 out of the car this afternoon because the matrix had been weeping so needs to be renewed - pipework plumbed back together to keep the car mobile.

Without going down the Clayton route (pockets insufficiently deep)  is there a swap of fan (impeller or motor or both) that can be added to the existing heater box to give it some more oomph?  

I did find a comment about using a 'squirrel cage' but nothing about which one to use.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom.

....... Andy

 

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Hi Roger - thanks for the link,  not sure how I missed that one with my search! 

The best part of £100 without an impeller and mods to the airbox......  I was hoping someone may have found a good recycling option from a plentiful modern, i’ll keep hunting -  I have some time before the cold returns :) 

...... Andy 

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Hmmmmm..... looking at that one again.... perhaps the impeller/fan is inside the housing, I’m sure someone will know.

....... Andy 

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I have dropped Graeme a message, he may have some more info.

thanks Rob - yes, it does look to be motor and impeller combined. Perhaps I’m over (or under!) thinking it, but wouldn’t the airflow inlet/outlet be lined up wrongly for the TR airbox? Or perhaps it doesn’t matter as long as the outlet is pointing downwards.

Car builder solutions have a couple of slightly cheaper options, this one looks pretty similar

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/3-speed-squirrel-cage-heater-fan

 

...... Andy 

Edited by AndyR100

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I have a similar issue though, in my case the heater fan is noisy (as if it is catching somewhere). Likewise I don't have deep pockets so will be interested to hear how you get on

Andy

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Andy,

The Car Builder Solutions fan looks very similar to the one used in the Clayton type heater. It will not fit in the existing upper fan housing (the part that fits to the plenum).

You could try and make a new upper housing to take the fan, or maybe try this:  https://www.malpasairflow.co.uk/ItemDetails/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=30103062&SingleResultCriteria=

It is 12v and IP68 waterproof, and judging by the drawings might well drop straight in. Single speed, but probably would work with a simple rheostat control.

Mike

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I got sick of trying to make the Smiths TR3a heater fan work even with a good motor and a new Fan blade. My dead granny generates more puff.

I tried various types of alternatives none of which supplied anything like enough air flow.

I now have three x two fans fitted and start with two and the rheostat brings in the third at high setting.

The fans are invisible other tan the flow of my hair as they run. The Smiths heater as in the TR3a was notoriously poor and many fit the modern heater and swear by them. I wanted to keep as much original as possible and so looked at things from a different perspective.

I have three double as in push /pull fans so a total of 6 fans working. The flow will move the curtains on the other side of the room. And for the first time ever the demister vents actually have flow to the screen.

I am sure that my solution could be adapted to suite the 4/4a heater box and retain it much as original looks.

Any one interested send me a drawing and pics and  will try and see if my solution would work and later post a how to.

Rod

 

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2 hours ago, mike3md said:

Andy,

The Car Builder Solutions fan looks very similar to the one used in the Clayton type heater. It will not fit in the existing upper fan housing (the part that fits to the plenum).

You could try and make a new upper housing to take the fan, or maybe try this:  https://www.malpasairflow.co.uk/ItemDetails/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemNumber=30103062&SingleResultCriteria=

It is 12v and IP68 waterproof, and judging by the drawings might well drop straight in. Single speed, but probably would work with a simple rheostat control.

Mike

Hi Mike,

thanks for taking the time to take a look and make this suggestion. I have just taken a closer look at my airbox and agree that the carbuilder fan probably won’t fit without some creative work to mount it way up inside the round intake to allow room behind (there is less room ahead of the matrix than I thought!)

Looking at the dimensions of the Spal 6” fan I think it could be a great option. It is only just over 2 1/2” deep, and the fan width appears to be identical to the diameter of the intake. Overall width of 170mm should allow it to be fixed directly to the face where the original motor-mounting legs were with just some new holes.

At the moment this looks like the best bet..... many thanks 

....... Andy 

138410F7-9CB0-4230-B5B2-38489A4FDED2.jpeg

Edited by AndyR100

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1 hour ago, Rodbr said:

I got sick of trying to make the Smiths TR3a heater fan work even with a good motor and a new Fan blade. My dead granny generates more puff.

I tried various types of alternatives none of which supplied anything like enough air flow.

I now have three x two fans fitted and start with two and the rheostat brings in the third at high setting.

The fans are invisible other tan the flow of my hair as they run. The Smiths heater as in the TR3a was notoriously poor and many fit the modern heater and swear by them. I wanted to keep as much original as possible and so looked at things from a different perspective.

I have three double as in push /pull fans so a total of 6 fans working. The flow will move the curtains on the other side of the room. And for the first time ever the demister vents actually have flow to the screen.

I am sure that my solution could be adapted to suite the 4/4a heater box and retain it much as original looks.

Any one interested send me a drawing and pics and  will try and see if my solution would work and later post a how to.

Rod

 

Hi Rod,

I’m not familiar with the 3 airbox..... I started off thinking I may be able to use multiple smaller fans in mine but there appears to be quite limited room to fit them in, I’m leaning as mentioned above to a straight fan- swap To keep it as simple as possible but make an improvement. Sounds like you have a great solution for yours though! 

....... Andy 

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Andy,

My fans are smaller than the original Smiths motor and fan and fit inside the matrix of the Smiths heater

image.png.d94712aff158af5c43965389455f6cd9.png

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I see that there are replacement smith motors around from places like Holden and there has been previous talk about using a Morris 1000 motor, but I wonder if anyone has ever looked at 12v marine air pumps like this https://albinpumpmarine.com/product/marine-air-blower-1000-inline-165-12v/  perhaps the airflow is not enough?

Mark

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13 minutes ago, Jase said:

Same thing but cheaper https://www.t7design.co.uk/3-5kw-lightweight-heater-with-side-vents-12v.html

we use them to replace the heater on a sidescreen car, not really suitable for later cars due to the position of the air intake.

Stuart.

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2 minutes ago, stuart said:

Same thing but cheaper https://www.t7design.co.uk/3-5kw-lightweight-heater-with-side-vents-12v.html

we use them to replace the heater on a sidescreen car, not really suitable for later cars due to the position of the air intake.

Stuart.

Looks the same, luckily I have a good discount at MSpares as I've spent a huge amount of money with them on the GT

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I've been playing with this project for the 4A with an old heater box.

Picked up the 3 speed minibus fan motor from a friend who's nephew was in the States. Unfortunately the fan disintegrated on dissasembly from the dead motor in the heater box.

The minibus fan seems to rotate in the oposite direction to the TR one which precludes using the impellor off an MGB.  (its a 4" cage type blade that only funtions in one direction)

Back to the drawing board so either find another fan blade that works in the opposite direction or I have found a number of univeral 3 speed motors which have the drive shaft protruding from both ends which would allow me to use the MGB fan blade and cut off the redundant end of the shaft.

Will probably get back on it before the winter as the plan is to fit it whilst the engine is out for a bit of a fettle and tweeking.

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Graeme kindly got back to me regarding the approach he took, the thread which includes the pics is included here, some of it pertains to the later set-up on the 6 :

This involves modifying the heater-box itself and was helpful additional background. I'll take a closer look and do some careful measuring of my half-dismantled oneto be sure whatever i go with will fit!   New matrix (the pressing problem) is on its way

Appreciate all of the help and advice on this one :) 

....... Andy

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Quick update on this, maybe of help to others in the future......

Mike’s earlier reply was a really good steer, I spent a little time trawling through the SPAL catalogue searching for the most likely candidate for a pull-fan which stood the best chance of fitting in the space but also being low enough profile for it to clear the slope of the heater-box shape.

Eventually narrowed it down to 3 options the 6” one Mike referred to, and a couple of slightly smaller ones. I made some templates and used these to try and figure out which was the best bet.

I am now in possession of a SPAL VA39-A101-45A.... 5.5” (140mm) fan, the important factor for me is that the mounting-ears are half-way up the shroud so that it can sit slightly inside the air-intake - this is great because it lowers the depth of the housing so that it does not foul the slope of the heater box, thus avoiding the need to modify the box itself. (Big thumbs-up to T7 Design for their help on the phone and speedy delivery)

Not sure what the CFM rate of the original fan is, but I hooked the two of them up and the SPAL dishes out a good bit more of a blast.

Photos below might explain better than words...... I just have to clean it up a bit, make 4 new fixing holes and I should be in business.

At the moment it will either be on or off, but I’ll try and expand my electrical knowledge and incorporate some kind of rheostat.

........ Andy 

 

26EBA90B-A5B1-41B2-A196-473C44DAB3BB.jpeg

1ADFCDE9-806E-449F-8098-A6C592327052.jpeg

0D55DF98-7DA2-49A4-8B9E-E3B9497BFB5C.jpeg

CB649524-B62E-447C-A32B-7A147905547B.jpeg

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Hi Andy,

thanks for that.  I may attack the heater when I have the GB out in the coming weeks.

Rather than a Rheostat  some sort of Pulse Width Modulation control would give better control.

The Spal only take up to 4 amps so quiet easy to control.  Loads of circuits to steal on Google.

Roger

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Thanks Roger - I will have a search for simple wiring solutions - the info I found indicated this fan has a max draw of 7amps (the less powerful A100 I think is 4A) - hopefully the extra draw will still be controllable. New matrix has turned up to - Christmas has come early!

....... Andy 

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Yes Andy - that should work a treat. You might have to allow the heatsink to have some air flow though but probably not much if the fan only draws 7A.  Maybe a dissipation of 14W in the power transistor worst case - probably much less.

Edited by RobH

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Hi Andy,

that would do the job.

If you only need 2 or 3 speeds you could replace the pot with 2 or 3 switched resistors.

 

Roger

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