PaulAnderson Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Thanks Stuart. After a serious fright in the car the use of a roll over bar is strongly in my mind. I’m not keen on the visual impact of a roll over bar on the good looks of the car so the Revington one seems ideal. I’ve since found a photograph of the top of it on a different page of Revington’s web site at https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr9148-1ak/name/rob-road-tr4-hard-top-no-diagonal. It’s not entirely pretty either but with some internal trimming may be less so. I imagine that the mounting position of the roll over bar is critical as it’s the bar that secures the back of the Surrey top and so affects tightness of the top. Though thinking out loud those front drop legs fasten to the front of the wheel arch so cannot be moved. Paul. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Revington have a high reputation, and seek to provide their customers with good advice and information about their products. So if I were thinking of buying one of these, I would ask searchingly about the holes drilled in the cross bar of the hoop, to attach the Surrey top! They must weaken the bar significantly, unless Revingtons have reinforced it after drilling, and I can't see any of that from the photo. I hope they will be able to reassure you. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 7 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Revington have a high reputation, and seek to provide their customers with good advice and information about their products. So if I were thinking of buying one of these, I would ask searchingly about the holes drilled in the cross bar of the hoop, to attach the Surrey top! They must weaken the bar significantly, unless Revingtons have reinforced it after drilling, and I can't see any of that from the photo. I hope they will be able to reassure you. John John, Agree about willy nilly drilling of roll bars compromising strength, Revingtons report in their write up of the bar it is completed with a weld in ferrule in the holes. If the supplied bolts are close tolerance fits to the ferrule there will be minimal loss of strength involved. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 2, 2020 Report Share Posted May 2, 2020 Didn't find that, Mickey. Reasurring jindeed, and confirms my impression of Revs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jase Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 You would also need to use the correct seatbelts with the rollover as it could be more dangerous in an accident without one. Personally I would not fit a rollover bar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 Driving without a seat belt is an Offence. The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993, SEction 2 para 5. With a tiny number of exceptions. So you have to wear one. But why does that make you so against a roll-over bar? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 13 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Driving without a seat belt is an Offence. The Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seat Belts) Regulations 1993, SEction 2 para 5. With a tiny number of exceptions. So you have to wear one. But why does that make you so against a roll-over bar? Unless the car is pre65 and theyre not fitted. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 On 5/7/2020 at 7:13 PM, Jase said: You would also need to use the correct seatbelts with the rollover as it could be more dangerous in an accident without one. Personally I would not fit a rollover bar. Not sure why? Certainly it's not advisable to fit harness belts without a ROB or cage, was that what you meant? Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jase Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 Yep, if you fit a ROB then you need to fit the correct harness belts. Normal seatbelts will not stop you from banging your head on a ROB if in an accident so therefore could be more dangerous as they can give you a false sense of security. Personally I would only fit a ROB if I was racing/rallying but all personal preference, owners can do as they wish with their cars. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) ........and seats with head restraints, and roll bar padding if you’re not going to be wearing a helmet. Edited May 9, 2020 by Drewmotty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 I don’t quite follow the comment about seatbelts. Graeme’s helpful photograph of his TR250 shows the seatbelt mounting on the wheel arch as standard ( with what looks like retractable belts) and seats with headrests along with the Revington roll over bar. I can’t see the what the problem would be in using standard belts in a TR4A and MX5 seats with that same bar. Revington do have an option of a removable belt bar if using harnesses but I would not want to take that route. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jase Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 Paul, it is something to consider before investing in a ROB. It is recommended that you use a harnesses that attaches to the ROB so that you are properly protected. I noticed that Graeme has standard seatbelts and that is his choice. The danger is that if you have a collision standard seatbelts will not prevent you from moving upwards out of your seat and then your head will hit the ROB which maybe more serious than the collision. I have a Spitfire as well and bought a ROB but have chosen not to fit it because of this issue. Again, up to you what you do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the response. One of the hopes with the Revington roll bar is that it’s further back and higher than other bars, hence less chance of banging my head on it. I’m long in the spine so already sit high in the car and can already touch my head on the frame on the soft top when driving. I have the MX5 seats pushed right back. On the same argument I could bang my head on the standard backlight frame in an accident Still haven’t made my mind up whether to fit the bar and fibreglass backlight at significant cost or just keep it as it is. It has been suggested that I modify the original backlight for the roll over bar but that involves grinding away a lot of the metal which would irreversibly change it and so not something I’m keen on doing. Paul Edited May 10, 2020 by PaulAnderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Jase said: Yep, if you fit a ROB then you need to fit the correct harness belts. Normal seatbelts will not stop you from banging your head on a ROB if in an accident so therefore could be more dangerous as they can give you a false sense of security. Personally I would only fit a ROB if I was racing/rallying but all personal preference, owners can do as they wish with their cars. That old "false sense of security" argument. It's been used against almost every advance in passive safety: seatbelts, bike helmets etc. So-called risk compensation theory. The trouble is, the evidence for it as actually very thin and contradictory. In the real world, it appears that we drive how we drive and crash how we would have crashed anyway. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) Out of interest, following mention on another thread of IWE 2010 I was browsing my old photographs and noted the roll over bar installed in BST 824 (Beastie) of Tony Sheach as now uploaded to Flickr and posted in by link below I note that his roll over bar seems to fit reasonably high in the backlight though is straight and hence not the Revington one I was considering. It will likely be a full rally roll over bar and the diagonal brace is evident. He has the Revington rally seas as well which are lower than MX5 seats so would be beneficial. I'd considered them a while ago but my partner will not entertain them as there is no recliner / back adjustment. Paul Edited May 21, 2020 by PaulAnderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, PaulAnderson said: Out of interest, following mention on another thread of IWE 2010 I was browsing my old photographs and noted the roll over bar installed in BST 824 (Beastie) of Tony Sheach as now uploaded to Flickr and posted in by link below I note that his roll over bar seems to fit reasonably high in the backlight though is straight and hence not the Revington one I was considering. It will likely be a full rally roll over bar and the diagonal brace is evident. He has the Revington rally seas as well which are lower than MX5 seats so would be beneficial. I'd considered them a while ago but my partner will not entertain them as there is no recliner / back adjustment. Paul Tony has a original alloy backlight frame so thats why his bar fits differently. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, PaulAnderson said: Out of interest, following mention on another thread of IWE 2010 I was browsing my old photographs and noted the roll over bar installed in BST 824 (Beastie) of Tony Sheach as now uploaded to Flickr and posted in by link below I note that his roll over bar seems to fit reasonably high in the backlight though is straight and hence not the Revington one I was considering. It will likely be a full rally roll over bar and the diagonal brace is evident. He has the Revington rally seas as well which are lower than MX5 seats so would be beneficial. I'd considered them a while ago but my partner will not entertain them as there is no recliner / back adjustment. Paul Once you have any kind of ROB fitted I suspect you'll find the rear stay tubes of the ROB obstruct any meaningful degree of seat recline, they do on my car anyway. Unless you have no headrests of course, and/or unless you move the passenger seat forward quite a long way to allow some recline. Then, if you have harness belts your co-driver would have to faff around re-adjusting all the straps each time they wanted to change the seat angle. Sorry if that sounds negative! Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ricky30dk Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Hi Paul, I’m also long in the spine (and short in the wallet), so went for this solution, which I’m told will not fit under a surrey backlight (though I haven’t tried). I haven’t used harnesses, though I have fitted the seatbelt to the hoop, rather than the wheelarch. The headrests are motorcycle sissy pads and fit at the perfect height for me. I may need to find something to fill the gap for shorter passengers.... Though I have covered the tubes in foam anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Ricky...that is a very interesting approach to the RO bar fitment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted January 14, 2021 Report Share Posted January 14, 2021 Ricky's double hoops - back stay, yes. Diagonal, no. They will still be weak to a lateral impact. Linking the two hopps by a strut between their tops would contribute to lateral strength. JOhn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4Tony VC Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 Hi folks on the two pictures above in the thread which are attributed to me, 3VC (the interior shot) in fact has a Revington TR fibreglass backlight and the integral rollover bar with a removable diagonal.The fact that none of you could tell speaks to its quality of fit. Some may remember by put we removed 3VC’s original backlight to preserve it and the period the period stickers etc when we were rallying the car fairly hard. The seats are also RTR offerings and predate my ownership of 3VC. The car in the picture below that is obviously BST82B and in that car I have a full Safety Devices 6 point roll cage which is chassis mounted at six points, through the body and direct onto the top of the frame. The front bars are cut into the top of the dash top just inside the a post and screen surround, and it has a screen bar above and a further bar under the dash to stop the engine coming through. It also has door bars fitted and a full diagonal brace in the rear. This car requires you to change the fuel tank which most would do for competition use in any case. I know there are other options out there, for example 6VC has Revington TR’s full cage in it too, but it is demountable and you can leave the rear section in whilst removing the front and roof bars making it much more flexible in use if completion is occasional. That’s a very good cage too but I found it slightly more intrusive that the one In BST82B. FWIW, my view is also that drilling holes in bars isn’t great but both the RTR products have inserts to recover any lost strength. You can lap harness belts round a horizontal bar rather than have holes for eyes etc, but that bar absolutely needs to be at the right height so that you don’t end up snapping your spine if you crash and the harnesses grab you and crush your spine. This is one of the big points with harness belts in any TR and eyes mounted on the shelf over the axle are far too low to be safe. Grufty seats that collapse on impact will do you the same harm. I’m fitting another of the rear bars with removable diagonal and belt bar in 5VC right now and I’m happy with it in every detail and you CAN fit it with an original alloy backlight, you just need to relieve it a little in a couple of places which will never be seen again when reassembled. If you are going to fit bars, cages, seats and harnesses my advice is to talk to someone who knows what they are doing and as a minimum look at the Motorsport UK website for the relevant regulations under App K. Lots of easy to understand diagrams on fitting bars, cages and belts safely and it’s all there to protect you as far as possible in the event of an accident. regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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