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Panch

Front brake options...

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Hi all, 

First Post on here, although I've been a 'watcher' for some time, so apologies for it being a few questions! I'm in the middle of doing a full restoration on my '6', well actually Protek are now doing it now for various personal reasons (I've actually started a blog on the build in member's blog area). It's going really well, with much guidance and advice from Bill Bourne (thanks again Bill)... but I've got a few questions regarding front brakes. I've done a fair amount of hunting around and gleaned lots of info on the subject and made a few decisions, but I've still got some questions.. 

I was going to go with Brembo solid discs, but I'm told they are no longer manufactured? Anyone know where I can get a pair? My next option was Tarox, but they don't list a TR6 set but I'm sure I read somewhere that someone was using them, so does anyone have a part number please if that's the case? 

In the absence of the above, I was thinking vented (not drilled) but using standard calipers (Bigg Red are about to start refurbishing the calipers).

So, I'd obviously need to use a spacer for the calipers, which I'm sure Bigg Red would be able to do as part of the refurbishment if I sent them the discs, but does anyone know if this would foul standard steel wheels? I know I could put a spacer on the wheels too, but I don't really want to do that if I can help it. 

I don't want to go for 4-pot calipers either as I don't want to mess about with the braking balance between front and rear and I don't think they'd be particularly required for fast road use anyhow, but I do still want something a bit more than 'standard' since I did suffer fade every so often before the car came off the road for the restoration, hence the vented option.. :) 

Many thanks! 

Panch (or Venkatramanan Panchapakesan as I appear in the blog!)

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Panch

If you don't want to deviate too far from standard, try slotted discs and Mintex 1144 pads.

Slightly dusty, but plenty enough good 'stopping potential' for road use.

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Hi John, 

Many thanks..:D  Yes, I've seen that posted on other threads too.. I just like trying different things and not necessarily going with the 'norm', hence my question.. I guess you'd could call me a 'tweaker'.. I don't want to open a can of worms either though, I've seen many heated conversations on threads regarding this subject.. hence being a bit specific with my questioning! :D

Panch 

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Slotted  discs and find some Old style 1970s pads , bed them in like we used to , they will stop you in everyday scenario, 

graham

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Toyta 4 pots on the front with standard discs and morgan +8 cylinders on the back  give excellent improved braking at budget price. you can get rebuilt calipers from rock auto usa $25 each.

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4 hours ago, Nobbyc said:

Toyta 4 pots on the front with standard discs and morgan +8 cylinders on the back  give excellent improved braking at budget price. you can get rebuilt calipers from rock auto usa $25 each.

I have this conversion on my 6, i do like it but it isnt a huge step forward.

as i see it braking power is defined by a combination of :

hydraulic ratio, ie master cylinder to ‘slave’ cylinder total area

rotational speed of the contact area, driven by disk and drum size

friction coefficient, driven by pad/shoe material and to sme extend disk/drum material

for the TR we dont have cheap options to increase the disk or drum size.

4 pot calipers do however move the contact point of the pads outward, hence increasing effective rotational speed 

the toyota calipers do also slightly change the hydraulic ratio, especially in conjunction with the larger drum cylinders, giving a longer pedal traven but more hydraulic power

pads , and disks, are the easiest option to increase friction coefficient

HTH

steve

 

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As for fade, vented disks will help here.

so what we want is large, vented disks, with four pot callipers and high friction coeff pads :-)

steve

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Slotted / x drilled discs from Revington & Hawk HPS pads (Cambridge motorsport) with 5.1 fluid are a good combination.

The pads work from cold but have a high temp range. You won't need any more on the road and unlikely to get fade on track days.

Jerry 

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Slotted TRW discs, Mintex 1144 pads, Groodridge braided hoses, Morgan rear cylinders, DOT5 silicon fluid and an Audi vacuum pump running -13psi to the servo has produced a phenominal improvement in the braking performance of my car.  I'm also a 'tweaker' :)

Gavin

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EBC made a set with 20mm or 22mm vented discs and spacers in the original caliper.

It seems the set is no longer availiable.

They are the smallest vented ones I know and they already need spacers for steel wheels.

They have dimples and slots. To avoid that a Ford disc must be used what is 4mm wider.

 

EBC offers a dimpled and slotted disc not vented and road legal with German TÜV approval. It is the GD199.

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Panch,

I've successfully used calipers from Rover P6 3500 V8s with a solid grooved disc on my race TR6. I used the standard TR6 master cylinder and servo without any modification.

The calipers are a direct fit onto the TR6 caliper mounts, though I seem to remember having to fit a thin shim to centralise them. The calipers are cast iron, so quite heavy, but take a pad approx. 40% bigger than the TR6 pad. They are a 3 piston caliper - yes, 3 piston! 1 large piston on the inside and 2 smaller pistons on the outside.

They require a disc 11 1/2" diameter as opposed to the standard TR6 10 7/8" diameter. With this combination you get a bigger swept area at greater radius resulting in improved braking through greater clamping pressure, but retaining good modulation.

That set up worked excellently for me for several seasons, a relatively inexpensive system before I upgraded to full 4 pot calipers and vented discs with a twin master cylinder pedal box as I developed the cars' power.

Calipers are available from Rover Classics, 01342 327018. http://www.winsintltd.co.uk/rover-p6.html 

Calipers are priced at £72.00 each on an exchange basis but they would probably sell a pair outright at extra cost. 

Unfortunately, the Rover discs don't fit, as they are 5 stud wheels. Sorry but I can't remember where I got the discs from, except that they were supplied as 12" diameter and I had to get them turned down to the required diameter. Your local Motor Parts Supplier may be able to let you thumb through their brake disc caliper catalogues to identify a suitable alternative.

Dave McD

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Thats very interesting Dave!

what 4 pot system with dual mc did you go for?

i see racetorations have one but it’s too expensive for me

steve

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Steve,

I have a Wilwood system with 12" diameter vented rotors mounted on separate hub centres operated by a Wilwood pedal box with balance bar.

Can't remember caliper ref Nos. I bought them S/H from another competitor who upgraded to even bigger brakes but I think they came from TR Enterprises originally, but quite some years ago now. With Pagid race pads I'm still very happy with them, very reassuring at 127 mph at the end of the 1.1km long Kemmel Straight at Spa.

Had to change wheels from the traditional Wolfrace that I ran with the Rover P6 set up to run the 4 pot Wilwoods in Compomotive Minilte replicas, ML1560  https://www.comp.co.uk/products/product.asp?item=ml1560-24-127

Forgot to say in my previous post, I think the P6 calipers fit into standard TR6 steel wheels, but best to check for yourself first if you think of going down this route.

Dave McD

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Thanks Dave, i shall try hard to not look into this :-O

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On 1/3/2019 at 6:13 AM, TriumphV8 said:

EBC made a set with 20mm or 22mm vented discs and spacers in the original caliper.

It seems the set is no longer availiable.

They are the smallest vented ones I know and they already need spacers for steel wheels.

They have dimples and slots. To avoid that a Ford disc must be used what is 4mm wider.

 

EBC offers a dimpled and slotted disc not vented and road legal with German TÜV approval. It is the GD199.

Interestingly when I tried to get a replacement set of discs (mine have a slight judder) ECB denied they ever supplied them.  Not the most helpful of companys) These fit inside  standard steel wheels but getting them seems impossible at present.

Have got a set of Corrado discs that I am going to get machined down and drilled to fit (will update you if they do fit). Big Red sell the caliper spacer kits as they were a common mod on Cortinas.

The standard calipers function well enough with the Hawk Pads (The Mintex 1144s are good but fade more).

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1 hour ago, Andy Moltu said:

These fit inside  standard steel wheels but getting them seems impossible at present.

Very interesting! I had the last set.

We prepared that set for a friend and it did not fit.

Maybe there are some different parts availiable.

Some modern wheel flanges are about 3mm more to the outside. Limora in Germany offered them. Maybe that is the difference, It was not much, but brake caliber interfered with the steel wheel from a post 1973 carb TR6 on both sides.

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Interestingly the spacers supplied with the ECB kit are thinner than the spacers supplied by Big Red.

This mght be a factor in why some people experience fouling?

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Ev a ratch thru here

http://www.national-auto.co.uk/assets/content/documents/brake_disc_cat_-_nov_2014.pdf

look for yer offset, then match t,whats available to nearest size

going by the picture oft disc dimensions at top of each page.

Peogoet / citroens are a good start, as its what i got

 

a few MMs  deeper or out  will be ok, if too deep, it,ll catch the track rod

but thee,s can be shimmed ootwards

try an get as bigg a disc as can be fitted inside wheel

caliper brakets are easy t,mek up out of good quality alloy bar

 

generally a really big disc can be fitted, its the caliper that fouls the rim,

then need t,get grinder at that t,shave of where its touching

dont bother about it being 5 stud, or diff pcd 4 stud,  its easy t,re drill

div nae worry about if inner hole is too small, just open up a little

the Peogeot 406 coupes needed about 15 thou off, an a stud re drill, bit off set wer perfect

 

I got 12 inch discs on that wer 4stud, an 32 mm thick

yer standard calipers will suffice if ye make a spacer shim, easy done, wid O rings as seals

this way ye wont get a longer pedal wid bigger calipers

just ratch aboot till ye find wot,l fit, as GTs are slightly diff to a TR

so cant be moer specific

 

M

 

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