PhilJane Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hi All. I wonder if I could get some advice on riveted tags and commission numbers. I am interested in buying a TR250 car which has a riveted plate on the bulkhead with a number "421 - C" and a Commission number of "CD411L" should these be the same? The seller has pointed out that the car has had a front end collision in the past (evidence on the inner wing and bonnet) and the paint code indicates the car should be British racing green with black trim, although it is currently red bodywork with tan interior. The colour change does not bother me but am curious whether the numbers should match. The car has the "eyeball" fresh air vents, so believe it to be a genuine TR250 and not a TR4A, but are there any definitive features of a TR250....other than the 6 cylinder engine ....which it has! Attached are the two riveted plates. Appreciate some feedback from you experts out there! Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomtr250 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hi I think the riveted plate is the body number, the other tag is the VIN number Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 The plates you show are usually not the same number. The slim plate is just the body number and the other carries the Comm No. All the TR250's I have seen have a different comm plate to yours, but as yours is a very early one it could have been supplied with a 4A plate as shown in the picture. The factory could have just used what they had left, or it could have been supplied during a previous restoration as the TR250 plate is not available as a repro. There are quite a few differences between 4A and TR250, perhaps you could show more photos? Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilJane Posted December 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Thanks for those two comments. Here are a couple more photos. It shows a 'door pull' which Bill Piggott's book indicates that this was a feature of the TR4A. Also shown is the dash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) The TR4A door pull is a common retrofit as is the glovebox door pull. The rest of the door hardware is TR250. The steering wheel and dash all looks to be TR250 but it is possible the H frame is a TR6 item. Cheers Graeme Edited December 29, 2017 by graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) Both plates are original, not repro. (see below - there seem to be some variations that I was not aware of) The second plate will read 421 CD if you look closely. The numbers are consistent with a single car - the numbers are normally close but not the same. AlanR Edited December 30, 2017 by TR 2100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Both plates are original, not repro. AlanR Hi Alan, I am interested to know how you can be certain it is original. Did all the early cars have TR4A comm plates? All the TR250s with original plates I have seen, are like this one. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilJane Posted December 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Could my car have a TR5 plate, showing the weight of the car in lbs. ? The cars were going down the production line together.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
68tr Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hi, Graeme the early TR250's have a different plate as shown. I am not sure of the change date or VIN sequence, but that is correct for an early car. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hi, Graeme the early TR250's have a different plate as shown. I am not sure of the change date or VIN sequence, but that is correct for an early car. Mike Thanks Mike, I wonder if the later plate was introduced for cars sold after April 1 1968 as that is the date of the Safety Regulations mentioned on the plate. Just a thought! Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saffrontr Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 Graeme, Pretty sure that is the case as there are also plates which show Jan1 1968. cheers Derek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 That plate is correct for an early 250 as its the same as a TR5 one, its only the later ones that started having the date stamps. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fremont Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 A local gent with a '69 TR6 has the same commission plate as above and insists it is original. CD8315L has the April 1 1968 type however, and now wears an NOS plate with the same markings but with " A Member of British Leyland " below. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 Hi Alan, I am interested to know how you can be certain it is original. Did all the early cars have TR4A comm plates? All the TR250s with original plates I have seen, are like this one. US Day 7-018-2048.jpg Cheers Graeme I'm with Alan -- those plates look original. I've never seen a reproduction commission number plate with the stamped figures showing that kind of original and patinated appearance. I guess it would be possible, but it's outside anything I've observed in practice. Many times reproduction plates have a different typeface in the stamping and a more handworked appearance. They're often backed with wood or something more compliant than the original dies and have a more indented stamping. Here's an reproduction plate example from the sidescreen era, alongside an original. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stone1962 Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 Hi all, perhaps a bit late for a reaction, but I think I have something to add. I am from the Netherlands and have an early TR250 with chassis number CD 130-L. I can tell you the plates I have on my car look the same as the ones described. So it is original. The other thing is that I have exact the same door interior with the silver handle which is used on a TR4A. So this is also original. It seams to be an original early TR25o. I suggest to take also a look into the grille. The early models have a different grill. It looks like a TR4A grill WITHOUT a crank hole and it is not painted black on the top sides of the horizontal bars. The first about 1000-1500 models built have these type of grills. I spotted also a TR250 with the same grill when I was in Malvern at the International weekend. You could buy one lately at Ebay.de at a price of 1000 euro. Cheers Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) This thread is a bit long in the tooth, but I thought I'd chime in nonetheless. I've researched the 68 Triumph commission plates as I've got a 68 Spitfire that I wanted a replacement plate for. The vast majority of TR250's used the same plate as the 68 Spitfire, i.e. the one shown later in the thread shown by Graeme. The very early TR250's apparently used leftover TR4 plates. Don's point about reproduction plates being not per the original is exactly what I found, therefore, I recreated the 68 commission plate precisely to the last detail. I have now produced a small quantity and have them available if there is interest. These are Concours quality plates, indistinguishable from the originals. Reply here if interested. Best, Paul Edited November 18, 2019 by spits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 Hi Paul, Good job, I have been looking for these for ages. How can I get a couple from you? Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted November 18, 2019 Report Share Posted November 18, 2019 Graeme, I'd be happy to ship these your way. To you, and any other potentially interested parties: The plates themselves are $29 US. I charge actual shipping, handling and any fees for currency exchange/foreign transactions, e.g. PayPal. If you're interested, you can reply here or you can email me directly at krausepa@gmail.com. Thanks. Best, Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted November 25, 2019 Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Folks, Just a note for any of you considering these plates: I produced a limited run given the anticipated limited demand. I have a small number left, but when they're gone I will not develop another batch. I can ship internationally at cost as noted in the previous post. Simply an FYI. Best, Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted December 26, 2019 Report Share Posted December 26, 2019 As a typesetter of many years standing earlier in life, I have an eagle eye for spotting the tiniest irritation in a copy of anything with type and I have to say that Paul's reproductions are absolutely mint. When people reproduce text they often don't understand the relationship of inter-character spacing and how it has changed over the years and therein lies the easily spotted errors in reproductions. Congratulations Paul. That really is a superb job. Cheers, Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Dave, I'm very embarrassed to only be replying to this now, but apparently, my notifications were not set to alert me of replies. I just wanted to thank you for your kind words of affirmation. I worked diligently to ensure that the plates were true reproductions and not merely plates that hinted at their origins. Interesting that your background is in typesetting. I was trained as a 'printer' and spent many hours setting type by hand(!) before progressing to Linotype and subsequent computer-based typesetting tools. That was many years ago before my engineering career. Very kindred spirits, we are. Best, Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Incidentally, for all, I am now working on the 'early' TR250/TR5/late TR4A plates and will have those available in the near future. These are the plates that contain the asymmetric top/bottom borders and have the "BS AU" impressed text in the bottom border. I will post when these are available. Best, Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 16 hours ago, spits said: Incidentally, for all, I am now working on the 'early' TR250/TR5/late TR4A plates and will have those available in the near future. These are the plates that contain the asymmetric top/bottom borders and have the "BS AU" impressed text in the bottom border. I will post when these are available. Best, Paul Didnt they have the weight in lbs? Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spits Posted February 14, 2022 Report Share Posted February 14, 2022 Interesting question, Stuart. I have examples of both KILOS and LBS. I have a number of Spitfire plates of this type in the '67 era; 1 uses KILOS and the rest use LBS. I believe all of the 4A plates that I have access to have the weight in LBS. I haven't been able to discern whether the weight units were selected based on a destination market or simply a trend away from KILOS and toward LBS in general. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 14, 2022 Report Share Posted February 14, 2022 24 minutes ago, spits said: Interesting question, Stuart. I have examples of both KILOS and LBS. I have a number of Spitfire plates of this type in the '67 era; 1 uses KILOS and the rest use LBS. I believe all of the 4A plates that I have access to have the weight in LBS. I haven't been able to discern whether the weight units were selected based on a destination market or simply a trend away from KILOS and toward LBS in general. I would have thought market specific as local legislation for inspections on first registration would probably require it. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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