Dave Ashworth Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 HI All, Just replaced the front Calipers on the TR5 and they bled very well. However, I can get hardly any fluid through to the rear brakes. Does this sound like rear brakes needing a going over or a master cylinder problem? Any ideas and help welcome. Thanks very much. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 Have you got a restrictor in the rear brake hydraulics? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I notice that on various cars and have always assumed it is the valve mentioned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Thanks for these suggestions Peter and Eddie, I'll have a look and see. Cheers. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hi Dave If you had the car jacked up st the front you might have an airlock somewhere in the system or the metal pipe leading from front to back. You could slacken the pipe at its rear jointget the car level and see if fluid will start to seep through. Regards Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Check the rear flexible hose. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I guess he did not bleed it right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 In which order did you bleed them Dave? Assuming its RHD; nearside rear, offside rear then offside front, nearside front. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted October 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Eee by gum, you cheeky blogger Niel. Lol. Bled as per Pete's detail above, furthest from the master cylinder first and then move towards it. All new steel hoses, thanks Stuart. Car jacked up on four axle stands, level, all wheels removed, lights, cameras and a bit of action. Two cups of tea whilst contemplating if the spanner was clean enough and I polished the bonnet just to show it that it was loved. Sleeves rolled up, best Pyrex glass jug from the kitchen, nice clear plastic bleeeeeding hose, not to be confused with 'eer indoors 'ose, or even 'O's, hoes or Jose. Master cylinder cleaned out with cotton buds so that not even a gnat's whisker was in there. All new clear, dot three fluid. Not had time to look for this potential hidden restrictor yet as I had to pop to Sweden for a few days. Back on the case next week. Thank you Gents, one and all, much appreciated to have this back up just in case I missed something obvious... er... .like opening the bleed nipple. You missed that one Neil. Lol. Cheers. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hi Dave, as mentioned, there is a flexible hose to each TRailing arm. I can't imagine both failing together but worth a check. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boxofbits Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 [quote Thank you Gents, one and all, much appreciated to have this back up just in case I missed something obvious... er... .like opening the bleed nipple. You missed that one Neil. Lol. Cheers. Dave. Regarding bleed nipples you might just check they are not blocked. Might be worth taking one out and see if the fluid seeps out. Regards Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Surely it should be offside front bled last since on RHD TR5 this is nearest to m/c. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hi Tim, if the 5 is like the 4A then the OS front has a longer pipe run than the NS front. It is the pipe run length that is the main issue, Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Nope Its the loop over the diff,tis why I pressure bleed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 EeziBleed does it for me when all else fails. Most of the air seems to end up coming out the Lh front which is last to bleed on Rh drive 4a. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Good point Roger, I stand corrected, sorry Pete! It is logical that it is the length of pipe run that is the important thing rather than proximity of the bleed nipple to the m/c. I had look at the brake pipe lay outs for both RHD 4A and 5 and on both the pipe run is longer to the offside front calliper. I've been doing it wrong for 46 years! However, by the same token the pipe run to the offside rear is clearly longer than to the near side so, referring to Pete's order in #8 again shouldn't the osr be bled first? Confused of Holwell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hi Tim, you are correct about the rear brakes - OS rear is further away. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisR-4A Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 +1 Roger, so to summarise in one post order is: Offside Rear Nearside Rear Offside Front Nearside Front Regards Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks Chris, this will be my order in future not that I have never had any trouble getting a good firm pedal using nsr, osr, nsf, osf. Logically "farthest" should mean in the sense of longest pipe run, not separation in space. Interestingly my factory wsm (TR4 with 8/65 4A supplement) states on page 3-204 that bleeding should start with the wheel cylinder farthest from the m/c (the N/S Rear) and end with the "wheel cylinder" (calliper) nearest the m/c (O/S Front). I did spot in an accompanying photo on the same page that the m/cs were adjacent to the wiper motor so we were dealing with a LHD car, which might make the difference. However, on looking at the two TR4A brake pipe layouts on p61 of the Moss catalogue it is clear that for both left and rhd the order longest to shortest run is OSR/NSR/OSF/NSF. I conclude therefore that the wsm is in error. (My brain hurts now). Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 ....or we could do it the other way....................... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tr graham Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Tr5 brakes are totally different to 4A Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Ashworth Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Dear All, Sorry for the long time in getting back to you on this brake subject, as I was out of the country twice. That is great Chris that you summarised all the wisdom and now we all know that the obvious way to bleed the brakes is completely wrong. Ten out of ten for Neil, I did bleed 'em in the wrong order then, it would appear, observing the obvious, which is the obverse of the reverse order. I am sure Roger will understand that! Reminds me of the Gibson Firebird when reissued and re-named the Reverse Firebird was exactly the opposite of the one you really wanted... until you go and try one out that is, and then you find that the weight of the neck is ridiculous and whilst the guitar looks great, it is hopeless to handle... but what's that got to do with the obvious? Well, I'm back in the country, but only for one more day, when I will be off to the Netherlands for a couple of weeks and so car business has slowed down a lot, unfortunately. Thank you all again for the great feedback. It makes doing the brakes very exciting and educational. I'll get back on to it when I return, and by the way, does anyone know what a restrictor looks like and where am I likely to find it in the system as I can't find it in the book. Cheers. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Item 76 on page 61 of the Moss catalogue. P/N116197. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Dave There is not one fitted to a 5 or 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Neil, there shouldn't be. I was speaking recently to someone who found one on a 6. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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