Car Lifts

[bookend69]

Hi All

 

I've got four old cars plus motor bike, but not enough garage space.

 

I've decided the cheapest (cheaper than building more garages) and most practical (the wife doesn't want to lose any more of the garden!) way forward is to buy two 240 volt car lifts, one 4 post and one twin post. The 4 post will be used mainly for storage, with occasional maintenance (limited headroom in that garage) and the two post, although also used for storage, will be the main work horse.

 

Does anyone have any recommendations? I've been impressed with the Strongman lifts, but would welcome any one else's comments.

 

Cheers

 

Martyn

[john.r.davies]

Martyn,

There must be something wrong with the search facility on this site, as this is a subject frequently discussed before, yet when I search for "car lift", I get nothing, and for "two-" or "four-post", I get hundreds of irrelevant hits.

 

But Google is your friend (!), Go to Google and search for "tr register car lift" to find at least five threads, from 2012-15.

 

Good luck!

John

[barkerwilliams]

Martyn,

 

I have just fitted a Automotec 3.5 ton lift (it's great). However before(!) you buy measure the height of the car you want to park underneath. Don't believe the "lift" height quoted on a lift as being the clearance you will get.

 

When you position the lift arms on a 2 post lift there may be a couple of inches of gap to the car chassis. As you lift the car the chassis goes up but the wheels dangle down, presumably different cars with different suspensions have a differing amount of dangle. You might loose 150 to 200mm of clearance over the lifting height. When the lift gets to is theoretical maximum height the safety locks drop in and the lift is lowered onto the locks to relieve the load from the hydraulics - perhaps another 100mm drop. So please measure your vehicles and then get proper quotation figure.

 

Obviously a four post list will keep the wheels up and no wasted space from the pad / chassis gap. But four posts often have a small end ramp that drops as the list rises.

 

Alan

[Motorsport Mickey]

Martyn,

 

Just a pertinent point, because of their concentrated footprint all 2 post lifts are critical on concrete quality and require at least 3000lbs density (only achieveable with a professional concrete mix) or higher quality (lift manufacturer will recommend) and likely to be of a depth not normally found on a normal concrete base, with probably a 5 point bolt fixing on each foot, definitely not a home mix job. No shortcuts here or the lift will very likely try to kill you.

 

Mick Richards

[barkerwilliams]

Martyn,

Since my post above I have been out and measured my lift with TR6 onboard.

The car chassis is 1800mm from the ground, the front wheels 1580 and the rears 1610mm. Giving a maximum clearance of 1550mm.

If I had raised my Pathfinder the chassis is 450mm off the ground so I would anticipate the wheels being about 1400mm off the ground.

Mick is correct, my garage was purpose built with 6” reinforced concrete overall increasing to 12” where the ramp is positioned.

Alan

[Don H.]

The Garage Journal forum is a terrific resource for all things garage and tool related. International in scope, well-moderated to keep the discussion on-topic and polite. Highly recommended.

 

There are dozens of threads on lifts, many of them quite valuably detailed. Before you spend a lot of money, Martyn, you might want to spend a few hours there looking for ideas and advice.

 

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/

[TR5tar]

Martyn,

 

Just a pertinent point, because of their concentrated footprint all 2 post lifts are critical on concrete quality and require at least 3000lbs density (only achieveable with a professional concrete mix) or higher quality (lift manufacturer will recommend) and likely to be of a depth not normally found on a normal concrete base, with probably a 5 point bolt fixing on each foot, definitely not a home mix job. No shortcuts here or the lift will very likely try to kill you.

 

Mick Richards

 

Hi Mick,

 

I know we have covered scissor, 2 post and 4 post lifts at length in other threads, but as you seem to have researched this area quite a bit I wonder if you have any views on the 1 post variety, such as this: http://www.cjautos.eu/MOBILE_SINGLE_POST_CAR_LIFT_p/cl08.htm

 

I'm worried about the 2 post lift for the reason you mention about concrete depth and density and the 4 post seems too space consuming. Strongman Tamar (accepting lack of access down the centre) or Clifton lifts look possible, but as I have space for a post lift that might be better. It's not a serious consideration just yet, but maybe in time and I'd like to have a good feel for the best option.

 

Darren

Edited March 26, 2016 by TR5tar

[Stevecross]

Hi Martyn

 

I bought a 4 post lift about 3 years ago after long deliberations as to single, two or 4 post

 

I purchased it via Ebay and was first attracted by the price, but on an item like this you don't want to take chances with something holding a couple of tons above your head!

 

I contacted some previous buyers, found out the units were manufactured in the USA rather than China and finally purchased a 4.2m x 2.6m lift.

Having had a quick Google it seems they are now supplied by a company by the name of SJR & possibly others (absolutely no connection)

Have found it perfectly OK with a range of cars from as small as a Frogeye up to my friends Nissan Navara Twincab.

If you would like more detailed comments and experience then pm me.

Steve

[Guest ntc]

Having owned many ramps high cost and low I do not belive the price on here that some pay.

[Stevecross]

Darren

 

Just read your comment re space.

 

That was also my consideration.

 

My main garage is your typical double - 6m long by 5m wide.. Big enough (just) for two of my classic sports cars side by side, but certainly not wide enough to work on one with the other inside.

I realised that with a 4 post sited centrally I could store one above, work on the one below and bench out either side. A great setup.

 

The 4 post also is invaluable when working on cars such as TR's.

 

I use the lift to raise and lower body shells on an off of the chassis as often as I wish when I am doing a restoration. No more waiting around till the weekend for a couple of mates to come round to help lift on and off.

 

The only down side for me was that when I built the garage I built as high as allowed and had a storage floor above that I had to remove when I installed the lift.

In my case I am lucky to have lots of space outside and also bought a 12ft. x 12ft. field shelter that now houses far more than used to be stored in my garage.

Steve

[Eddie Cairns]

I have a two post and would advise that cars are not designed to be stored with the suspension fully extended for long periods.

 

A friend had a Rover SD1 with an AutoBox.

 

It was in an Autobox fixer and the box taken out on a two post and the part required took say 3 weeks to obtain and the car was in the air during that time.

 

It required new dampers when lowered.

 

Therefore a 2 post or single post lift is not suitable for long term storage of a car in the air and one on the ground, as others have said the wheels hang down therefore the typical 2 post has a lift of 1.8 mtrs but storage height being less than that, a Sports car is typically 1.3 mtrs high.

 

The problem is getting access to the controls on the car while it is in the air as the two posts get in the way.

 

Now if you have £8k to spend on an inground two post that only has the lifting pads coming out the ground then that improves access again.

 

The single post lift mention is also a wheels hanging down lift therefore not suitable for long term storage with a car on top and below.

 

The two post is great for under car access the single post is not as there are large areas covered if doing an exhaust, propshaft or gearbox on a rwd car. The single post needs area to store its cantilevered reaction load as something has to stop it toppling over. They do not need to be bolted down as the ground support area is so large but you are a bit short of garage space as most people are.

 

Sorry you get nothing for nothing.

 

The four post is easy to drive on but poor for access, better if you have two jacking beams but near a further £1k.

 

You can buy a wheelfree four post that drops the drive on base but the support beams in the centre have to have loadbearing areas on the car to use and they are circa £8k.

 

http://www.bradburyequipment.co.uk/productmoreinfo.php?cat_ID=30&prid=64

 

Why anyone would want to mix 4 or 5 cubes of concrete is beyond me unless you have a very restricted access and that was the case for my garage extension but the guy who put the floor in just used 4 strong men with barrows and two with the powered float and the concrete pour was only a few hours.

 

 

 

The concrete came in a ready mix truck and there is no money to be saved in reality never mind the quality of the mix as the time taken to mix this amount of concrete would be very time consuming.

 

In closing a man cannot have a large enough workshop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited March 26, 2016 by Eddie Cairns

[bookend69]

Thanks for the comments and advise everyone.

 

The floor slab in my older garage was half concrete and half concrete paving. The minimum floor specification was 150mm of 3000psi concrete. I'm a surveyor and always prefer "belt and braces" so went for 250mm of reinforced concrete, professionally mixed and supplied.

 

This garage also has a suspended timber first floor (effectively a loft space), which limits the ground floor head clearance. The four post fits and I can fit two of my cars, one over the other with about 100mm spare when taking car heights and lift depths into account.

 

The newer garage has the same floor specification, plus a roof height of 3.8m. I hadn't realised using a two post for storage might damage the suspension if left too long and will have to work around this. Coincidentally, I have got to completely strip down the suspension of the car (Rover P6B) which will be in the air, so this wont be a problem until the suspension is rebuilt. I assume I will be able to support the wheels in some way to get round this.

 

I too was surprised that I couldn't find a link to previous comments, but will try the directions given above.

 

Cheers

 

Martyn

[Eddie Cairns]

I'm just thinking that say you have put a car into high storage on a two post for a few months a few sets of spring compressors would sort that problem but be a pain to do.

 

Let me check with my friend who told me this happen to him and get back to you!

[barkerwilliams]

Martyn,

 

Have you looked at a four post on wheels so your floor space remains flexible?

 

http://www.automotechservices.co.uk/products/4t36s-mobile-4-post-parking-lift/

Alan

[John Morrison]

Hi Martyn.

 

I have a Strongman Tools four poster bought after many months deliberation one post v two post v four post.

 

Lots of pros and cons for and against all three.

 

Ring me if you want a chat about my thoughts,

 

I'll PM you my land line number.

 

Re above post looked at these BUT, they are just parking lifts,

fine if that is what you want,

but not for working on a car with.

 

John.

Edited March 27, 2016 by john

[Motorsport Mickey]

 

Martyn,

 

Have you looked at a four post on wheels so your floor space remains flexible?

 

http://www.automotechservices.co.uk/products/4t36s-mobile-4-post-parking-lift/

Alan

 

Not recommended to work on vehicles if the lifts not bolted down, picture says it all.

 

Mick Richards

Edited March 27, 2016 by Motorsport Mickey

[Stevecross]

My lift also came with a wheel attachment.

The ramps are not meant to be used with the wheels on the ground.

The wheels are attached to 4 substantial outriggers and meant only to provide a means to move the ramp and are then disengaged for the lift to sit square on the base plates

I used mine to position the ramp exactly before securely bolting to the floor.

Seemed stable enough unbolted but saw no practical reason in my case not to fix securely.

Steve

Edited March 27, 2016 by Stevecross

[Eddie Cairns]

Strongman tools can supply wheels for their four post ramps but these are to move the lift only.

 

They advise the lift should be bolted down in use and that there is at at least 6" of a reinforced concrete slab for the lift to sit on.

 

The main worry is someone reversing or driving into one of the posts while someone else is under the lift.

 

They advise one of the posts could fail under those conditions but if bolted down, that the post would take the hit from a car at reasonable speed.

[Eddie Cairns]

As I have already set up a spreadsheet if you give me the length of cable from the main consummer unit in the house to the one in the garage and the length of cable from the garage consummer unit to the lift I will work out cables sizes for you according to the IET 7th edition regs and the fuse ratings at the consummer units and the type of breaker.

 

The cable lengths need to include the vertical as well as the horizontal elements of the cable run.

 

How many lights and the wattage of the lights.

 

If using electric heating what is the load of the heaters.

 

If you have a compressor the load of the compressor.

 

eddie

[Motorsport Mickey]

Just as an aside if anybody is after a nice 4 post lift Strongman are advertising on their website they have 2 x Glenfinnan lifts for sale ex customer usage.

Been used for car storage in the main although one does have the lifting crossmember for wheels off service work, advertised at £1800 for each lift each including VAT an excellent saving over their new price. Don't know how up to date their posting is or if still available.

 

Mick Richards

[Lebro]

If only I had the garage to suit !

 

Bob.

[Eddie Cairns]

One big gotcha with the Glenfinnan in that they are great for older cars say pre 2000 as they are 1,760mm between the outside of the cars tyres at amaximium.

 

If we look at a basic Fprd Focus that dimension is 1,824mm, Vauxhalls are similar, Subaru nearer 1,600mm, therefore not suitable for a range of new cars which would be a pain for those who may want to use it for daily driver maintenece as well as with their classic car

[Bill Bourne]

 

Martyn,

 

Have you looked at a four post on wheels so your floor space remains flexible?

 

http://www.automotechservices.co.uk/products/4t36s-mobile-4-post-parking-lift/

Alan

 

 

+ 1 I have one of these. They are fine for maintenance - but you must bolt them down into 15cms depth suitable concrete.

If you want to move the lift, then you can with the wheel kit. It's heavy though, so not easy unless you have a smooth floor.

I had some issues with the installation. Not too serious, but you need to watch out for.

 

1) The electrics, needs a different type fuse - gosh can't remember the type.

2) The hydraulic pipe can catch on the bottom post lug/adjacent to the pump. You need to put a piece of timber underneath the lug (about 3 inches) to stop it catching on it's way up.

3) Installation - you need help - the ramps are very very heavy. I used an engine lift to get them into position.

4) Untangling the cables form underneath the ramps (after the shipping position) proved to be a brain teaser.

5) the cross tray they supply with the ramp is too short. I had to get mine modified. Auotomtech weren't that helpful to rectify.

 

Apart from that, really good and I am well pleased. So good to have a ramp.

 

 

 

Best Bill

[Eddie Cairns]

The normal mini circuit breaker is a B rated breaker that trips at an instantaneous 3 times the units current rating.

 

As an example my lift use 80 amps to start it but then after a second or so runs at say 16 to 20 amps.

 

Therefore in the garage consumer unit, I use B rated mini circuit breakers for the heating, ring circuit and lighting. I use a C rated mini circuit breaker in the garage consumer unit for the lift

 

In this case you would use a C rated mini circuit breaker that trips at an instantaneous 5 times the rating for your lift.

 

The C rated 16 amp breaker I fitted would trip but a C rated 20 amp works just fine.

 

The D rated mini circuit breaker trips at 10 times the instantaneous current rating. You are then getting into problems with the circuit breaker in your house consumer unit and the size of cable you require to allow the D rated breaker to work properly from the garage to the house.

If you need to use a D rated breaker you really need a separate mains supply to the garage. I have a 45 AMP B rated breaker in my house unit to serve the garage consumer unit if my memory serves me correctly.

[Stevecross]

I really do not understand how some of these threads get so tied up with detail.

 

About 5 years ago I bought a 4 post lift. 4.2mn x 2.3m. Cost about £1700.00

Been using it ever since.

Copes with something as small as a Frogeye Sprite to a Nissan Navara Twincab.

Easy installation with a couple of mates to help (these units are bl**dy heavy)

Absolutely no problems after 5 years. No issues with electrics.

Plugged into a 13amp socket and never tripped yet

Only issue I can see if you want a lift is space. i.e. width & height.

Buy what you need.

Steve.

 

Ps Below.

A pic taken 10 mins ago.

 

My friends Frogeye up on my ramp.

My TR2 Resto below - chassis on the ground body just lifted off and on it's side.

 

My garage is your average 5m x 6m double.

As you can see I have one car up in the air, another chassis underneath, a body on it's side, space to work along with benches either side.

Steve

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Stevecross