Mark Shezbo Sherratt Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hi, as part of the MOT, I have replaced the steering rack gaiters (what a slippery awful job!). Obviously the tracking needed doing after and last night I had a (Laser) 4 wheel alignment completed. I must say the "6" feels much better on the road now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nmottershead Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Thanks for this. Planning to do the same after refitting the steering rack after undoing it to replace the front engine oil seal. It will be interesting to see if there is a difference in HUJ. Did you take it to a normal tyre depot? Nigel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 My local garage set the toe in in mine pretty simply, and there is a distinct improvement in handling around the bends now the wheels point in the same direction :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Interesting Just fitted a new set of rubber to mine, was going to book it in for a toe in check, as they have a new alignment set up. I was planning on having front toe in set at 10 minutes toe in each wheel total toe in therefore 20 minutes. The system here is made by Hunter a Four wheel alignment, very impressive looking. What toe setting did you chaps end up / go with? Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Four wheel alignment from your local garage is what it says, to get a Tr set up correctly allow £ 400 min Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Neil. I only need the front toe in checking and adjusting as required, new gaiters fitted. The Hunter systems look impressive http://www.hunter.com/alignment-systems The rest of my car was set up years ago by Rtr,and needs no adjustement. Cheers GUY Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Guy That's different in your case however I do not like the look of that as it mounts on the tyre? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Shezbo Sherratt Posted June 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Interesting Just fitted a new set of rubber to mine, was going to book it in for a toe in check, as they have a new alignment set up. I was planning on having front toe in set at 10 minutes toe in each wheel total toe in therefore 20 minutes. The system here is made by Hunter a Four wheel alignment, very impressive looking. What toe setting did you chaps end up / go with? Cheers Guy Hi - I must add although this was completed at a local garage, it was done "out of hours" and the equipment was operated by a gent who is a personal friend (and is trained on it). The system FYI was a fairly new piece of kit (12-14 months old) Laser or Laserline, it mounts on the rims. Guy we set the toe @ 8 minutes toe in (on each side). What is this based on - the operators experience and the training he has had - nothing more. I dare say that there is a definitive setting for a TR6 (?) but as I say the car feels better now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TRseks Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I adjusted the toe in on my TR6 with the help of some thin bright orange string, I ran the string parallel to the centre of the centre of the wheels and adjusted a toe in of 1.3mm. I did this two times, one just after the rebuild and one last time after the suspension had set after a while. The question is how good will is this be compared to the laser method? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John L Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Brown Book shows a value for total toe on front and rear of 0 - 1/16" = 0 - 14 minutes, see conversion table http://www.trackace.co.uk/manual/conversion%20chart.pdf John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you All For your toe in measurements Cheers Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DOG_MORGAN Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Had mine done at kwik fit with the. New hunter system at a cost. £45.00 cost. Worth it Thanks billy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nylen Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 When I read in Repair Operation Manual on page 04.3 I read: "Wheel alignment front and rear 0-1/16" (0-1.58 mm)". On page 57.65.00/01 I read "Front wheel toe in should be within 1/15to 1/8 (1.6-3.2 mm)". What is ok? Is it for single wheel or for both. 1.6 mm is the same as 14 minutes for a 15" wheel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 Best toe willl be affected by the compliance of the suspension bushes. Original ruuber nushes will dictate the need more toe than polyurethane or nylatron/stainless. When drivng the toe should become zero. So I dont take book values as gospel. Set mine paralllel as there is very little give in the nylatron/ss on the front and Siientbloc rear.. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richard71 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 Best toe willl be affected by the compliance of the suspension bushes. Original ruuber nushes will dictate the need more toe than polyurethane or nylatron/stainless. When drivng the toe should become zero. So I dont take book values as gospel. Set mine paralllel as there is very little give in the nylatron/ss on the front and Siientbloc rear.. Peter Very recently I had 4 wheel alignment carried out on a Hunter Hawkeye gizmo, I gave the garage the BB for reference, they weren't interested. They tell me that what they do is contact Hunter Hawkeye, give them the vehicle details and they tell the mechanic what the set-up should be. I too have Nylatron bushes fitted and I must say 4 wheel alignment is well worth it, my car drives like it's on rails. Richard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 When I read in Repair Operation Manual on page 04.3 I read: "Wheel alignment front and rear 0-1/16" (0-1.58 mm)". On page 57.65.00/01 I read "Front wheel toe in should be within 1/15to 1/8 (1.6-3.2 mm)". What is ok? Is it for single wheel or for both. 1.6 mm is the same as 14 minutes for a 15" wheel. Toe in is always quoted across the car in total unless stated otherwise. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GT6M Posted July 9, 2018 Report Share Posted July 9, 2018 Errr, thee,s folk woe say that the Laser type is best thing going, I take it that ye no whats actually required, !!! cos the operators in my findings dont, some ive seen actually jack the car up, so wheels are put ona turntable err what angle does yer wheels go to whenst jacked up, then let doon, !!! hint, they aint in a road running condition are they ! EG, ye set yer car up empty, { is this correct for them thats had it done !! } and then one gits in it, as soon as yer init, the trackings altered. and when there 2 init, its altered even moer. the car needs t,be loaded, not set up empty. If yer got soft springs, then it,ll alter alot moer than wid stiffer springs as the car settles, then wheels go negative, which spreads the wheels ootwards, which alters the toe be v v suprised if they {hawkeye } have got data for all the different set ups for a olde car. never mind diff springs, tyres, camber settings, which all have an effect on tracking settings M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Best toe willl be affected by the compliance of the suspension bushes. Original ruuber nushes will dictate the need more toe than polyurethane or nylatron/stainless. When drivng the toe should become zero. So I dont take book values as gospel. Set mine paralllel as there is very little give in the nylatron/ss on the front and Siientbloc rear.. Peter Thats very interesting Peter! So the idea is that the wheels are ‘pushed back’ a tiny amount by the forward movement of the car and allowed by the compliance in the bushes? Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lightningburns Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Hi all, Lots of interesting info, yes Steve on a rear wheel drive car the front wheels will tend to be pushed out when driven forward, the compliance of the wishbone bushes directly effects the ammount of change. As already mentioned loading of the car also has a significant impact. especially on IRS rear camber. Most if not all the data was available for loaded and unloaded, the data provided by Hunter head office is probably unloaded but anybody who has had theirs done should have a print out showing the required and actual values, by checking that against any orig data values they could probably tell which method was used. The older Hunters used clamps on the wheels not the tyres which some may think was the better method, the newer systems using clamps on the tyres is for speed, they can really check modern cars in a couple of minutes. I am not sure that the latest Hunters can do wire wheels with the prominent spinners. As already also mentioned to do a full 4 wheel alignment with alteration should cost a lot more than £45 on a IRS TR as the camber and setback are all altered by shims (and brackets on the rear) which are very time consuming if done properly with suspension re-settling after every change. Caster, if you were really keen can be changed by using Jaguar shims on the top ball joints if you get the ball joints machined down or use some recent QH joints with no grease point which appear to be smaller than the originals. My view is that the TR,s are very unlike say a Lotus that is noticeably affected by 2 PSI in tyre pressure and a change in suspension settings of a degree. So a machine at your local tyre depot that can check 4 wheel alignment is a good thing especially for tracking and to confirm that all is well and not way out of spec, but for comprehensive 4 wheel alignment/adjustment you need the measuring kit + shims + usual loading + someone that knows what they are doing + lots of time/money, is it worth it?, each to their own! I usually use a Gunsons trackrite, a camber level from China with a home made bracket and a steel tape measure, if I had a Lotus I would use a Hunter alignment machine. Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin White Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Hi John - re castor angle, I have had to correct castor as a result of some minor earlier damage by adding more shims behind rear lower wishbone bracket than behind the front bracket. Can you confirm that Jaguar shims will fit against a TR6 upper ball joint? Also is it possible/ feasible to use a Jaguar upper ball joint? And do you know where the narrower QH ball joints an be obtained. Thanks in advance for any info you can give me. Rgds Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Thats very interesting Peter! So the idea is that the wheels are ‘pushed back’ a tiny amount by the forward movement of the car and allowed by the compliance in the bushes? Steve Steve, Yes, so they run true in motion. The rears also tend to toe out with the driving force when accelerating. When the rear end squats under accleration I think ( not absoletly sure) the toe reduces a bit and partly compensates. The semi trailing arms go through wide anges of toe and camber between droop and compression and the only way to reduce them is to stiffen the suspesnsion, ideally with arb. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lightningburns Posted July 10, 2018 Report Share Posted July 10, 2018 Hi John - re castor angle, I have had to correct castor as a result of some minor earlier damage by adding more shims behind rear lower wishbone bracket than behind the front bracket. Can you confirm that Jaguar shims will fit against a TR6 upper ball joint? Also is it possible/ feasible to use a Jaguar upper ball joint? And do you know where the narrower QH ball joints an be obtained. Thanks in advance for any info you can give me. Rgds Colin Colin as far as I am aware the Jag XK ball joints appear to fit but the taper is slightly different, XK140 ones may fit, using the smaller QH balljoint would only allow one shim to be fitted in front of the joint, the problem with adding shims to a machined down ball joint or using xk140 joints in retrospect would cause binding of the trunion and the vertical threaded upright, so it would not appear to be a good idea.(Binding would occur if the wishbone centre lines are as factory) With accident damage you are dealing with the unknown. The easiest way is as you have already done is to shim the lower wishbone, I did read somewhere that a shim = 1/4 degree of caster, if you have used more than 2 extra shims behind the lower wishbone then the damage would appear to be more than minor. Regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tim D. Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Ok so I did a chassis change a few years ago.. since the change the car runs well and tyre wear is pretty even. However, before the chassis change I noticed that at slow speeds beyond a certain steering angle the steer became very light. This doesn't happen anymore. Could this be a change in geometry? Cheers Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Ok so I did a chassis change a few years ago.. since the change the car runs well and tyre wear is pretty even. However, before the chassis change I noticed that at slow speeds beyond a certain steering angle the steer became very light. This doesn't happen anymore. Could this be a change in geometry? Cheers Tim Hi Tim, Steering lightens when the centre of the tyre contact patch and the projected vertical axis of the king pin coincide. Normal geometry is designed so that the vertical axis projects to the front of the contact patch - known as 'castor trail'. Caster trail delivers self centring action. Too much caster gives very heavy steering and vice versa. So too-light on turns.......my guess is the upper wishbones might have been wrongly fitted before the chassis change, forcing the king pin more vertical and reducing trail. In turns the projected axis of the kingpin moves in relation to the contact patch due to the camber. Hnece the steering is lighter in turns. But a lot of negative camber makes little difference to steering effort so I reckon its the fore-aft angle - the caster trail - that was wrong. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin White Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Thanks for you reply John, points noted re shimming top ball joint. I have got correct castor with 2 shims front and 4 rear behind lower brackets so will live with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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