Ragtag Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I've started this thread here rather than hijack the thread in the new section but I have been wondering, since that thread started, what the purpose is. Professor Cobold has obviously had the same thought............................. It seems to me that the topic could have been raised in the TR3 section or, if considered to be non specific, in this section. All the responses are from 'the usual suspects' anyway. Stuart's answer to Peter's question seems to be suggesting (to me at any rate) that the purpose of the new section is to provide access to the collective technical experience of the Forum to people who are IT savy enough to be on email but who can't be bothered to join the Forum and ask for themselves. I'm sure that can't be the case, it's just the way it comes across. Please don't misunderstand. This is not meant to be a criticism in any way. I'm all for inovation and trying new things out but I just don't think the purpose of the new section is particularly clear. Perhaps Stuart or Alec could take this opportunity to explain further. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 the purpose of the new section is to provide access to the collective technical experience of the Forum to people who are IT savy enough to be on email but who can't be bothered to join the Forum and ask for themselves. I'm sure that can't be the case, it's just the way it comes across. Well, that's exactly that, my ol'mum (76) is just savvy enough to be on email but not savvy enough neither bothered to get on FB. It never crossed my mind that she should be blamed or punished for that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 ...my ol'mum (76) is just savvy enough to be on email but not savvy enough neither bothered to get on FB. It never crossed my mind that she should be blamed or punished for that Does she do a lot of work on your TR, Stef? Good for her! Go mum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Does she do a lot of work on your TR, Stef? Good for her! Go mum! She was a journalist and for 30 years contributed to build the information network which we are all benefitting today, for free... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Explain further ? Come on Chris, I'm only here for the beer . . . . . . You're not too far off with your analysis, though. This Forum has not always, historically, been enthusiastically endorsed let alone promoted within the pages of TR Action, for example. I'd guess a certain feeling in the ancien regime (now departed) that they'd created a Frankenstein's monster that they couldn't control ? For sure some local group members seemed to have formed an erroneous impression that the Forum was the fount of all TR evils. Hardly surprising that many members have avoided the TR Forum then . . . . . The management attitude has changed, and the new board are all for expanding online resources - better late than never, and I for one am delighted with the evolving attitude and approach. Meanwhile, is it surprising if some members of our club prefer to address their enquiries by email or even Postman Pat rather than risk this den of iniquity and revolution ? And, to be fair, there are too many online car forums which are appalling, worse than useless - stuffed with idiots big on opinion and small on knowledge or experience, and devoid of any sense of the normal conventions of civilised communication. I can think of several forums which would put the average enthusiast off forums for life. So, by highlighting email queries on our Forum and referring the original enquirer to the discussion, we will hopefully involve more of the TR Register membership in our discussions. Ripples in a pond, longer term thinking, which will hopefully benefit everyone . . . . . Somehow, I can't see every TRR member wishing to join in on Forum, any more than I can see every TRR member wishing to belong to a local group. There will, I'm sure, be an ongoing need for email and postal response to technical questions, and the Forum discussions will augment rather than replace the direct response. Early days yet, trying out new ideas, some of which will work better than others. Hopefully we'll see more new ideas, and more constructive criticism too - at least the board don't seem to regard any criticism as intrinsically destructive in the way that the old management committee seemed to. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2long Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 May I suggest that after a topic has been chewed on for a while, someone from the expert technical team could try to distill the comments and separate the wheat from the chaff. Then that could be shared with us all in a post so we can learn too. Of course, the topic could still wind on and on, but that is not a bad thing. Cheers Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Cairns Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I have found on forums and in every day life that some people want an opinion from the recognised expert or boss, similar in a way to asking to talk to the workshop manager or the garage owner to have their ego polished by the important man talking to them and in most cases having to agree to an extent with the persons usually wrong but well held conventional view as they obviously know better than the guy on the shop floor. For people without the ability to actually separate the wheat from the chaff, this can give them a warm feeling as they want one answer not what in a lot of ways is usually correct in that you advise of three different tests to confirm or deny what the correct solution will be . If it gets more people involved like using Facebook and Twitter so be it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) There do exist people with not only expertise that they want to share but the inclination to post here. The Prof and Alec Pringle are only two. I'd suggest that the tech section should seek them out and commission articles on their chosen subjects to be be posted in TechSect. There they would be valuable resource for TR action. John Edited April 17, 2015 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Today we have people that write or email TR Action with technical questions and there is a small pool of experts that offer advice. We can debate all day why they dont just come here and ask but for some people this is either too inaccessible or too intimidating. This experiment exposes submitted technical questions to a wider audience, gets a broader set of opinions and suggestions and we may all learn something in the process. It would be nice if the loop got closed and we find out what the actual solution turned out to be. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don H. Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 ...It would be nice if the loop got closed and we find out what the actual solution turned out to be. Yup -- sort of the TR equivalent of "Stump the Chumps", for those who know Car Talk, the much-missed public radio program in the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) It would be nice if the loop got closed and we find out what the actual solution turned out to be. Stan Yes, that was the point of my original comment. The normal forum process usually provides feedback as to what actually worked ( or did not). And we can then all learn. But I'm with Chris is saying lets see how the new section progresses. Maybe there's an expectation amongst the Tech Team that they will seek feedback from the questioner as to the outcome, and let us know. Give us a distilliton as Dan says. As for articles that JOhn suggests. I think that we could do that, but I suggest make the process peer-reviewed. Someone is asked to flesh out the bones and some detail and the rest of the forum pile in with information and corrections. So the finished article embraces the expertise of the forum at large. Like that the articles would embrace disparate information that a single author might overlook. My preference is for on-line articles as print cannot be updated. We dont need to replicate the workshop manuals. Even so covering all failure modes or after-market modifications to all systems for all TRs ..... where would we start? Its a big task. Peter Edited April 17, 2015 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I would concur with Peters comments, start a topic, utilise the power of the forum to expand and flesh it out then, either one of the tech team or, an acknowledged 'expert' (e.g. for Lucas PI, Neil Ferguson) could refine and tidy the supplied info into a fully useable answer/article. As for where to start, how about an area that comes up on the forums most frequently? Fuel injection; any one of a number of queries? Gearbox; selector issues? Distributor issues; points v electonics? Just some suggestions This would have to be seen as a long term project. With the marks (TR2 to the TR8) being so different, only time and use will allow the Tech Chat idea to mature Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) As for articles that JOhn suggests. I think that we could do that, but I suggest make the process peer-reviewed. Someone is asked to flesh out the bones and some detail and the rest of the forum pile in with information and corrections. So the finished article embraces the expertise of the forum at large. Like that the articles would embrace disparate information that a single author might overlook. Peter That format, Peter, sounds a bit like Wikipedia, and the Achilles Heel of the Wiki is that any fool can contribute to an article. No argument with peer review! I'd suggest that in line with academic peer review that the original article should be edited by the TechSect people and/or by a 'referee' appointed by them and thereafter remain intact, with additional points made in posts as occurs in the Correspondence of an academic journal! John Edited April 17, 2015 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 That format, Peter, sounds a bit like Wikipedia, and the Achilles Heel of the Wiki is that any fool can contribute to an article. No argument with peer review! I'd suggest that in line with academic peer review that the original article should be edited by the TechSect people and/or by a 'referee' appointed by them and thereafter remain intact, with additional points made in posts as occurs in the Correspondence of an academic journal! John John, Yes that's the idea. A permanent, expertly refereed article with a Correspondence section. But initially we all chip in revising our article until we are all happy - it would make the referees' task easier. But the forum format doesn't lend itself to the job. I'm long retired, perhaps a functioning academic can reveal how they do the job for a large multiauthor paper ( eg 100 plus contributors). Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 I don't agree that the forum is unsuitable for this. In medicine, one author of a multi-author paper is appointed the "Corresponding Author", and appears as such in a footnote, with a postal and an email address, for enquiries that are insufficiently notable to appear as journal correspondence. Journals that publish an "e-version" include a "Rapid Response" section and notable contributions there may make it to the printed correspondence. I'm sure your subject does a similar job. Many forums have a "sticky" facility, and can "lock" posts. If the original article, edited and referreed, were posted as a sticky, permanently at the top of the forum, and locked so that no edits could be made nor direct posts follow it, a second thread could be started, with the same title plus "Responses" to allow comments. But we are rarely into 'original research', but archive trawling and the experience of old hands. The original article might be revised after - a few weeks? - by the TechSect to include additional points made in correspondence to provide a long term advice resource. wjgco suggested some subjects - I'd add "Running on", tuning Pi, and "How to trace an electrical fault". John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 The future development of the technical aspects in TR Action, on this Forum, and on the new website are, I would reckon, infinitely flexible. Early days as yet, and all ideas gratefully received, as they say . . . . . Every new development requires manpower above all. After two past stints on the management committee, I'd be very surprised if any director can do his or her job properly without devoting a generous 300 hours per annum to the responsibilities, and it could easily be more than that . . . . . as I'm sure Phil Tucker and Chris Cunnington could both confirm. There are many other elected and appointed club officers, at local and national level, who also put in huge amounts of time and effort - much of it behind the scenes, effectively invisible, and the average member is blissfully unaware of just how many man hours can be involved . . . . or even who is involved. Few TRR stalwarts are given to blowing their own trumpets unnecessarily. All, I might add, unremunerated volunteers. Hence the appeal from Wayne in TR Action 281 - please see page 57 ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR5tar Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 In my view, the forum is the best tool the club has for sharing information, and as someone who is keen to learn more about the technical side of things, I very much welcome the addition of the Technical Team Q&A section. And I can understand why some club members wouldn't want to use the forum and would rather mail in their questions, so having the option of sharing those questions is a good one. But regardless of that, I agree with those that suggest that this new section should be of a different format to the existing sections. Of course, we don't know yet, if the first thread in the new section is representative of what we'll get in the future. But if it is, then to me it doesn't seem significantly different from say the Technical Chat section. I've benefitted greatly from the shared knowledge in the Technical Chat section, but as a tech virgin some of that information can be difficult to follow. I'm one of those bods that Eddie refers to that isn't always able to separate the wheat from the chaff. Those threads sometimes go off on wild tangents, which is not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion, as it can often be fun and entertaining. But, maybe with the new section, it would be good for it to be a bit more guided. And so, I totally agree that, if possible, a hands-on approach from the Technical Eds is the way to go. Ideally, for me, I'd like to see the information distilled (as Dan says) and feedback on how the problem was solved. Another thing I'd find particularly useful is if the Tech Eds could say how they would go about diagnosing the problem, using reasonably basic language for those of us that struggle. Also agree with John and Peter that the addition of refereed articles in this section would be a bonus. Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Well best thing I can suggest as you all seem to know how this new section should be handled is that you get in touch with Wayne and volunteer your services to shape it how you want. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Quite so Stuart . . . . . In recent weeks I've received probably 20 or so emails and phone calls explaining what you and I and everyone else involved should be doing . . . . . some of the comments distinctly forceful in terms of highlighting the future needs and priorities, and perceived failures to achieve in the past. Unfortunately, as yet there isn't anyone else involved. Unfortunately, not one of my correspondents has as yet offered to assist in any shape or form. Anyone willing to lend hand please see page 57 of TR Action 281 and get in touch with Wayne as requested, not with me ! Cheers Alec Edited April 18, 2015 by Alec Pringle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Alec, Stuart, Done. Peter Edited April 18, 2015 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Ditto, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.