Superaquarama Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Just been assembling the column on our 4A and rather dubious about the flexible couplings. Seems that, if the things disintegrate, you'll have no steering whatsoever as there's no fail-safe that I can see. Has this ever been known to happen ? Well, yes. I recall, back when I was a lad, a local solicitor's 3.4 Jag got stranded at the main crossroads in Welshpool town centre - the wheel was just spinning in his hands ! A few of us managed to get him to the side by tugging at the front wheels, then when we opened the bonnet we could see that the coupling had broken. Just as well he was barely moving ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeF Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) There is quite a lot of input on this topic in past threads. So far as I recall the discussions centred not on the rubber giving way but the lost motion in them due to squidge and the clamp design. Essentially - the design of the clamps that grip the splines can be improved by cutting out some metal to allow the clamp jaws to actually bend and grip. - the all metal design used on the later cars is a form fit function replacement. - you can use a slightly larger bolt size in the clamps . I was somewhat motivated to make this upgrade following my car developing independent front wheel steering , but fortunately whilst parking . (The clamps had loosened after the P.O. had incorrectly re-assembled the column. Mike Edited March 1, 2015 by MikeF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Ford Escort Solid steering UJ http://www.motorsport-tools.com/ford-escort-parts-mk1-mk2/steering.html As used at the bottom of TR5/6 steering shaft Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Here are the 4A UJ's with a small piece of metal removed. This guarantees that the splines really do lock together. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I used a compromise. A UJ on the lower coupling and a flexible on the upper one. The theory is that steering kick back is limited by the upper one, which can easily be checked over, and the lower one which is out of the way can be forgotten about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superaquarama Posted March 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Thanks for the replies, everyone. Assuming your pic is of a TR, Roger, you seem not to be using the standard bolts, which I think are countersunk (Allen heads) into the flexi coupling ? I wasn't so much thinking of the splines being the weak point, rather the coupling itself. Which is what failed on the aforementioned 3.4, and the car wasn't very old then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) The bolts are the Moss standard item http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/steering-suspension/steering/steering-rack-column-wheel-tr4-4a.html I have never seen /heard of a rubber coupling disintegrating although they can perish. However the perishing process is slow. So a 6 monthly once over would find any problems. The metal spline clamps have a built in problem that stops them from being fully tightened on the spline. The bottom coupling is the one that will be loose as it is difficult to tighten at the best of times. Cutting that little piece of metal out is the best mod' I've come up with. Roger Edited March 2, 2015 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trevor Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I followed Rodgers advice and it works perfectly , and also solved the Horn earth problem as the splines rust when not tightened an make a bad path to earth !!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swood1 Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Here are the 4A UJ's with a small piece of metal removed. This guarantees that the splines really do lock together. Roger DSCF0079c.jpg Hi Roger, For some reason I cannot open photo. Would you mind reposting please? I am not confident with my rubber UJ's and would like to replace. Steven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I use the TR6-type universal joints at both ends of the column. These I fitted a long while ago and I believe the Ford Escort type (as mentioned by Peter W, above) may be even better as there seems to have been a batch of inferior TR6-type around a while ago. Perhaps because I have quite large tyres (195/65 on 5.5J steel rims), kick-back from potholes is acceptable. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tim hunt Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Fully agree with peejay's reply, have same on my 4A, original flexible coupling at top and forged UJ atbottom. As regards latter however note that www.burtonpower.com offers the heavy duty group 4 rally Escort coupling at £22.50 including VAT (their part no MP199). This is quite a bit less than Peter W's suggested supplier. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hi Steven, the rubber UJ's are fine as long as they are in reasonable condition. As mentioned above, the perishing process (as opposed to the sodding process) is slow. The arrow points to where metal should be removed. This allows the clamp to work Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) For my money the Viva /Marina models used the same coupling as TR4/4A - they used to come with a steel band round them which once fitted you cut off and the rubber sprung out into place. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Viva-Chevette-Bedford-CF-Marina-Steering-Coupling-/161660322782 This is for bolts with hex heads not the TR6 items with recessed cap screws. And this is the two couplings with the rubber all in one from the bog standard Escort, that does the TR4-6 range. I guess the steel U strap that might give some degree of steering should the rubber fail. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Escort-MKII-steering-Coupling-U-J-/301674914993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463d39e4b1 Cheers Peter W PS You could of course go all out quality on this little baby http://www.flyingspares.com/shop/lower-column-rubber-coupling-ur23270p.html Edited July 1, 2015 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Hi Peter, it's funny you should mention the Marina-RR price differential for essentially the same part... Last weekend I fitted a Marina joint I got locally for RM5 (about a quid) to a RR Shadow...works fine...I also replaced the bellows of the steering box with a TR rack gaiter...all fixed for a few pounds.. Going back to the orig posters question, on the RR the joint had disintegrated, the metal fully delaminated, part of the rubber missing....but the car still steered OK...in fact after replacing the joint I don't notice much difference...so those joints fail safe as the metal bits still interfere to transmit motion, Edited July 1, 2015 by ctc77965o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuartmac Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have solid uj's top and bottom with no adverse effects. Many cars such as MG's has "solid" set ups as standard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Peter W's mention of a band round the rubber (post 13, above) reminded me that I watched Neil Revington and Carl Kiddell fit a replacement rubber doughnut at an International a few years ago. Neil took a large Jubilee clip, placed it round the doughnut and then screwed the clip tighter and tighter until the bolts passed through. Simple and easy! Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 +1. An old trick I used just the other day. Watch out for the jubilee clip screw contacting the paintwork though as you rotate the steering shaft to line up the bolts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted July 2, 2015 Report Share Posted July 2, 2015 Where my steering column 'earthing' strap was knackered, I used the copper 'desoldering' tape you get at places like Tandy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 After reading this post, I thought I'd have a look at mine. The rubbers look OK, but both the splined couplings were very loose on the lower U/J. Glad I checked! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Where my steering column 'earthing' strap was knackered, I used the copper 'desoldering' tape you get at places like Tandy. I would have thought this was a bit thin. better would be to strip the braiding off some old TV coax cable (RG58 or RG59 type) Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi Peter, the clamping effect on these couplings is very poor due to the bad design/manufacture of the spline clamp. Have a look at my pic above - removing this little piece of metal on one side of the clamp will allow it to clamp fully. If you haven't done this your clamp will not be clamped no matter how tight you screw it up. You often see rust stains around these clamps because of the fretting due to 'untight' clamps. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi Roger, They tightened up pretty well. I think I removed some metal during the restoration, but that was over 25 years ago so can't be certain. They're solidly clamped now though, and still have a gap so could close up a little more if the splines wear. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) HI Pete, in the pic on the above post the area of metal removal, where I have arrowed, is solid metal keeping the clamp apart. When you screw the bolt down really hard you end up distorting the clamp towards its free end - in effect only half the diameter of the bolt actually does anything - but not enough Roger Edited July 13, 2015 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not sure I follow that Roger. I must be particularly thick today. (Then again I'm older than I was yesterday!) Are you removing metal to increase the width of the slot in the clamp, or what? I don't understand the "solid metal" that your arrow is pointing to. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi Peter, see the attached pic. The dotted triangle is solid metal from one side to the other of the clamp. To the right of the dotted line the clamp is split and the clamp works fine. Where the triangle is the clamp does not work. So the pinch bolt has a hard task. By relieving the clamp with the 'U' shaped slot and cutting away the metal in the triangle along the clamp split the clamp works perfectly. If you had the item in your hand it would become obvious - bl**dy hard to visualise without. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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