Chilliman Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I should have learnt by now at my age......having had a leaking Bastuck sump on my other car I should have known better than to fit one on my new car without leak testing it first.................so please learn from my misake - if you do buy a Bastuck alloy sump make sue you fill it with water and sit it on paper the night before fitting, you may be suprised by what you find. A couple of years back when I fitted one it was just a small leak, this time after I'd dropped the new engine in I filled her up with oil and then went out to the garage the follwing morning to find a puddle twice the size of a dinner plate, a constant dribble from a pin hole half way down the side, how difficult can it be for them to actually test these ruddy things before they leave the factory Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Known fault another one bites the dust alas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
snowric Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Ferrari used to pain the insides of their ally sumps, I dont know what the costing but is was because they too were 'porous'. Disappointing for £200 quid. Snowy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Send it back and ask them to supply an oil tight one. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tr4Tony Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi I wouldn't bother using an alloy sump - only the OE ones are oil tight and they are mighty rare. Added to that, one smack with a stone and they crack open so honestly just not worth the effort Regards Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi John ~ I was lucky enough to buy a second-hand OE alloy sump but I coated the inside with Frost's 'Glyptal' oil and petrol resistant paint (just in case!). I also painted the inside of my Moss alloy rocker cover with it as this item had a few 'blow' holes in it. Absolutely no leaks from either item. Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 I have a similar problem with a 1936 Morgan sump that is porous but that is 78 years old. Apparently aluminium castings are routinely sealed now for most production cars by using an epoxy sealing process, e.g. BMW send all their Mini gearbox cases to a firm in Manchester for the treatment. There are several companies in the UK that will seal it for you. The big advantage of the Manchester ( Ashton under Lyne) outfit is that they charge very little and friends with Vintage cars have used them with great success. At the last call a few weeks ago their price was 90p/Kg with a minimum order charge of £35. To line the sump with Glyptol paint would cost more than that so really its a no brainer. I shall be taking my sump to them over the next few weeks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Down Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Tom, I was considering Glyptal but I thought that to be certain that it will not peel off it really needs to be baked on. The thought of bits of paint in the sump was rather worrying certainly on an old Coventry Climax engine. Glyptal is intended as an insulating sealant for such as electric motor windings and although it has been used with much success in sealing castings I preferred the epoxy approach. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Hi John, just send it back for refund and fit a proper steel sump - I probably have a decent spare if you need one. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Hi I wouldn't bother using an alloy sump - only the OE ones are oil tight and they are mighty rare. Added to that, one smack with a stone and they crack open so honestly just not worth the effort Regards Tony Thanks Tony, it was kind of you to sell me a porous one. Hi John, just send it back for refund and fit a proper steel sump - I probably have a decent spare if you need one. Cheers Alec I should of done what Alec recommends. In desperation I have now coated the inside with a two part epoxy sealer which has worked so far. Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I've had OE and repro alloy sumps. Both porous. Nothing that a 2lb ball pein couldn't solve en route to the scrap stillage, to save some other poor sod wasting time and effort. Fragile, they didn't need a lump hammer, let alone a sledge. Some parts you just don't sell on. Stanpart or not ! Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I have one OE and one repro sump on my TR4s. No problems with leaking (from the sump itself, that is!). Guess there's a bit of luck involved, but no reason to bin them (except that they are bling, rather than being effective, in normal use) AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I would ask for a refund instead of sending back and weld a spot on the hole if its the only defect. The modern WIG machines for home use can do so if AC/DC function added, just have to get rid of the oil in the material because it prevents from proper connection. Do not like coating inside because any chemical does not like heat/time/temperature differences/oil/moisture and that is all inside the engine and so no question it will fail, the only question is when! Only good news is that one will see it at oil change when peeling off starts and hopefully a proper colour has been choosen for that incident (red) Lotus had similar problems on their early twin cams. If I remember right they filled some compound under pressure into the material and wiped the rest inside off to keep a bright aluminium surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen cooper Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Can anyone confirm if alloy sumps typically have larger capacity? My 6 pot one seems to take quite a lot more than a steel one. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Can anyone confirm if alloy sumps typically have larger capacity? My 6 pot one seems to take quite a lot more than a steel one. Cheers Depending on which version then yes, certainly the Racetorations one does. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Terry Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 I would ask for a refund instead of sending back and weld a spot on the hole if its the only defect. The modern WIG machines for home use can do so if AC/DC function added, just have to get rid of the oil in the material because it prevents from proper connection. Do not like coating inside because any chemical does not like heat/time/temperature differences/oil/moisture and that is all inside the engine and so no question it will fail, the only question is when! Only good news is that one will see it at oil change when peeling off starts and hopefully a proper colour has been choosen for that incident (red) Lotus had similar problems on their early twin cams. If I remember right they filled some compound under pressure into the material and wiped the rest inside off to keep a bright aluminium surface. If you do try to weld repair it then it could take several tries. The flaw will be contaminated with oil and even very careful cleaning will not get rid of it all. The first (and possibly second and third) attempts at welding will probably be porous due to contamination but grinding them out and re-welding will eventually lead to a sound weld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stephen cooper Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Sorry for the thread hijack but thanks for confirming Stuart, they seem to take about 2/3ltrs more!? I will assume mine is an RCT item. Dipstick is standard length. Oh, I have leak too, not sure if its the sump though! Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 If you do try to weld repair it then it could take several tries. The flaw will be contaminated with oil and even very careful cleaning will not get rid of it all. The first (and possibly second and third) attempts at welding will probably be porous due to contamination but grinding them out and re-welding will eventually lead to a sound weld. Agree to that and from that reason I wrote you have get rid of the oil "in" the material and not "on" the material. On my V8 I made several attempts to combine two front covers. Unfortunately they changed the bottom to a better crank driven oil pump but also the top to a anticlockwise waterpump for wide belt. I combined the old top and new bottom and had trouble with the oil sucked into material for years. It seems to be clean and under the heat the oil is sucked out and makes black oxides on the surface. As grinding out the flaw will not cure the problem (oil will still stay inside the channels in the material) I recommend to have the area in a bath of break cleaner from both sides for some hours. To make the best from both recommendations a grinding before welding would be a good idea to break the oxides on the surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Robson Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Sorry to be potentially thought to be thick - but why do people buy alloy sump pans in any case ? They're more costly than the standard pan, they are heavier, and (by all the above accounts) many of them leak. They don't produce more power, and they don't reduce frictional losses. Do they even reduce oil temperatures ? No axe to grind, I promise. I'd just like to be educated .... Hon. Pres. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Graham, I gave my take on this above. Surely logic dictates that an ally sump with greater oil capacity will keep the oil temp lower, but that's not to say this is desirable. Did the VC cars have alloy sumps fitted? (I should know, but I don't!) AlanR Edited February 9, 2015 by TR 2100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 An oil cooler would do a damn sight more to reduce oil temperature . . . . . the more so given that an alloy sump is unlikely to dissipate heat as quickly as a steel sump. At least some racing engines have benefited from a heavyweight alloy sump in terms of stiffening the bottom end, but those are exceptions and not the rules . . . . and I can't imagine for one moment that an alloy sump does anything useful for a TR engine, 4 or 6 pot . . . . . . But there is I suppose a bling factor, noticed only by fellow anoraks clambering about under the car . . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Well if you are an anorak and you are squinting underneath the car you will be able to see it, because it sticks down below the chassis and BBBBooiiinkkkk is the noise it makes when you hit it on a raised manhole or other protrudance. When I used one for racing (purely to stiffen the block) we machined over 2" off the bottom of the sump and rewelded with plain 4mm alloy sheet making it just above chassis height to give me a chance of having an off without destroying the engine. Heart was still in the mouth though if you were riding the kerbs. As Alec says an oil cooler with thermostat is a more effective and safer way to control the oil temp. Mick Richards Edited February 9, 2015 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 The only real gain is increased oil capacity and baffle plate,not needed on a Tr. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR 2100 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 an alloy sump is unlikely to dissipate heat as quickly as a steel sump. I don't pretend to be an expert, but surely a finned aluminium sump, protruding about 1½" below the chassis is going to cool the oil more than a standard steel sump ? ? ! ! Obviously an oil cooler is more effective at cooling, no prizes for that aside but it is just a diversion from the discussion on the effectiveness of the aluminium sump. I'll repeat what I said above - they are bling more than an effective means of cooling the oil. AlanR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) Stiffening the bottom is most likely the reason to use such a sump. I tried to fiddle with a 5mm steel plate cutted out for counter weigths but was in trouble in the oil pump area. After some cut outs with stiff paper I stopped that. More oil or baffle is easily done with the steel sump. I made a simple plate below the oil level and welded it into the pan. Edited February 10, 2015 by TriumphV8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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