Marc R Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi John, Thank's a lot for this feedback, I shall consider this option for ma TR6 PI under re-construction. Best regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris59 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I understand that you have never found an engine which runs worse with multi-electrode plugs. I did : 30 years ago, I tried (think it was "Lodge", but not sure) multi electrodes plugs, and the engine running was simply awfull. Problem immediatly solved with a set of 4 Champions spark plugs, VERY sensibly less expensives (4 times cheaper !)..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike barrett Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 interesting discussion. So what are the part numbers for multiple electrode MGK and Bosch plugs? I am trying some Bosch multi electrode and they seem very good but the insulator body is smaller than standard plugs so the leads do not seal properly on them. regards mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 As I said it will end in tears this one sorry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Mike The plugs I used were NGK BUR6ET. Got them off ebay at £8.00 and a bit for the set of 6 The car is in the garage for a bit, so that I can clean the fuel filter and do an oil and filter change. Then if I feel lucky, I'm going to tidy up the PDM mudule to injector lines, they currently make the whole engine compartment look untidy! Neil Not sure why it will end in tears, but, a guide as to your thinking would be gratefully appreciated, not read a thread yet, that didn't offer new ideas or information. Edited January 20, 2015 by wjgco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpitFireSIX Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi, Just been reading this thread. I have always used in my CP engine NGK BPR6ET or BCPR6ET and at the moment BPR6IX. My choice was via this chart: http://www.spitfire6.com/ngk.html The NGK BUR6ET is a surface discharge type? The pictures I have just looked at look like a ***6ET type plug.. Are they surface discharge? I have seen mention of ye old condensers and points. For those of you that wish to use this technology and want the best from it; have you selected the correct size capacitors for use across the points and to ground the + terminal of coil? The correct values here makes more of a difference than a spark plug. Also if you change your coil type, you really need to look at the points cap (Condenser). A multimeter will help with the + terminal cap selection. A scope or trial and error will get your points condenser to the right value and your points will electrically last much much longer. Cheers, Iain. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Iain I would be very interested to know your thoughts on the advantages of the BPR6IX, over the more 'standard' multi electrode plug Via this forum, I have grown all too aware of the potential for poor reliability from these old engine designs, but, am convinced that, with the right combination of spark generation / spark discharge / fuel control / engine temperature control, I will be able to run with confidence. Already, with just tinkering with the butterflies and fitting the multi electrode plugs, I see a marked improvement in starting and cold running. Next its fuel filter clean and oil and filter change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 " I have grown all too aware of the potential for poor reliability from these old engine designs " The potential for poor reliability is not down to old engine designs. Back in the day some of us put 6 figure mileages on these engines, as daily workhorses that stood the pace. Poor reliability is usually down to a poorly rebuilt engine, or a poorly executed maintenance and service regime, or often enough both . . . . . Lack of regular use doesn't help either. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SpitFireSIX Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Hi, John? I always used the "T's" since 92 and never had a problem. I use the IX's as they are longer life and wanted a fit and forget. They are single and more expensive, so must be better? Sorry I cant give you an answer. Cheers, Iain. Edited January 27, 2015 by SpitFireSIX Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jobster Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 OK, went from BPR6ES to BUR6ET and went for a test drive. Very hard NOT to notice the difference, excellent pick-up throughout the whole range, these are it or me! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Another convert Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolboy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Count me in, I'm trying them. I have a little over 100 miles so far. I can't say I've had any complaints about Champion RN12YC, but y'all got me curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Ok Amazon tells me they don't fit a TR6 Are there different length threads? Or is Amazon wrong Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 They'll fit just fine. I've had that exact code in my 2.5PI. Note that they are resistive plugs (have internal resistor for noise suppression). Some will say that this will cause problems - not in my experience; not even in my Herald with standard ignition. I doubt they are cross referenced against the TR6 in the NGK catalogue which is why Amazon says no. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolboy Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 They are cross referenced with Champion RN9yc which is a plug listed for the TR6 engine albeit I found a little cold for the way I drive. Here's a code breaker for NGK spark plugs: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/partnumberkey.pdf And one for Champion: http://www.dinoitalia.com/images/tecnica/candele/Champion-spark-plugs-codes.gif Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 From my personal experience of dealings with Amazon I wouldn't take their opinion of the time of day, let alone take their advice as to fitment - or do business with them . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graze Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 They'll fit just fine. I've had that exact code in my 2.5PI. Note that they are resistive plugs (have internal resistor for noise suppression). Some will say that this will cause problems - not in my experience; not even in my Herald with standard ignition. I doubt they are cross referenced against the TR6 in the NGK catalogue which is why Amazon says no. Nick Thanks Nick They are cross referenced with Champion RN9yc which is a plug listed for the TR6 engine albeit I found a little cold for the way I drive. Here's a code breaker for NGK spark plugs: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinfo/spark_plugs/partnumberkey.pdf And one for Champion: http://www.dinoitalia.com/images/tecnica/candele/Champion-spark-plugs-codes.gif Thanks Poolboy Graze Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Gents Before I posed the initial question in this thread, I had been given conflicting information, thus, my enquiry. I will always take the advice of this forum over other sources, the guys here have not let me down yet. Graze I agree with Alec and Nick, ignore those who are not experienced in the TR art. The BUR6ET plugs are a great advance for me in my '6' and will be std fit for me, until this forum offers an alternative John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 (edited) The reason the BUR6ET plugs improve running may be because they replicate an old tuning trick of cutting down the earth electrode on standard plugs. A cut-down earth presents a sharp edge to raise the elctrical field strength and promote the discharge ( think: spike on a lightning conductor) http://i.imgur.com/PRVpu.jpg - whereas the standard earth presents a gap with two flat surfaces. Also a cut-down plug uses the sharp 'corner' of the live electrode, further raising field strength to ionise the mixture in the gap better. The triple earth electrodes simply ensure that erosion of that sharp edge is three times slower, I guess ! Peter photo source: http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-ford-techboard/509657-289-spark-plugs.html Edited February 9, 2015 by Peter Cobbold Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 They don't have a sharp edge, the earth electrodes are curved to match the central electrode forming a circular hole through which it protrudes. Top image here shows it. http://ngkntk.co.uk/index.php/technical-centre/spark-plugs/alternative-electrode-designs/ I think it works because it is, in effect, a side electrode design with the spark directly exposed to the combustion chamber unlike the conventional design where the spark is partly hidden behind the earth electrode. I reckon a single side-electrode would work just as well but the triples are more readily available and last longer. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Untill it finds it' shortest as I said and will continue to use it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 They don't have a sharp edge, the earth electrodes are curved to match the central electrode forming a circular hole through which it protrudes. Top image here shows it. http://ngkntk.co.uk/index.php/technical-centre/spark-plugs/alternative-electrode-designs/ I think it works because it is, in effect, a side electrode design with the spark directly exposed to the combustion chamber unlike the conventional design where the spark is partly hidden behind the earth electrode. I reckon a single side-electrode would work just as well but the triples are more readily available and last longer. Nick Thanks Nick, another theory bites the dust. That hole will face the squish flow better, whereas the conventional earth might obstruct it. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Name one professional two valve engine builder that would use them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jobster Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Name one professional two valve engine builder that would use them. Well Neill, if my engine blows apart because of these plugs, I will be looking for one and let you know.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Untill it finds it' shortest as I said and will continue to use it. Correct and direct quote from NGK website. Do multi ground electrode spark plugs provide simultaneous sparks to each ground electrode every time the plug sparks? No. No matter how many ground electrodes the plug has, every time the spark plug fires, only one spark occurs between the centre electrode and the ground electrode which has the lowest required voltage or the least distance to travel between the centre and the ground electrode. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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