GT6M Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Intresting that link aboot frerrocene, as its in the castrol valemaster, and VM plus. and it was banned in SA. only stuff allowed was phosphourus based. the article said it could damage converters and senors in the exhaust as well as doing damage to ex valves an seat, due to metal particles sticking to em this was on an article aboot octane boosters when good ole leaded was done away with, so its a while ago, And it also turns everything a reddish colour int combustion chamber ive found in the past, So too does the phosphourus stuff. M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Cobbold Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 M Its particles of rust that reddish colour. Ferrocene is a soluble organic iron compound - the organics burn leaving iron oxides. Banned from pump petrol here too. Quite right too - rusty powder wont help bore wear.. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I'd like to fit triple electrode plugs to my 3A. My car has a 2.2L engine. Which plugs are suitable (NGK?). Thanks ~ Tom. Hi Tom, I would put in the same as on the 6 cylinder engine: BUR6ET from NGK. Wilfried Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi Tom, I would put in the same as on the 6 cylinder engine: BUR6ET from NGK. Wilfried Goodbye engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi Tom, I would put in the same as on the 6 cylinder engine: BUR6ET from NGK. Wilfried They do not fit, they are too long. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 They do not fit, they are too long. Stuart. Sorry for that stupid suggestion. I did not realize that the plug must have a reach of only 12,7mm (H), not 19mm (E). The plug would be called then BUR6HT. I don't think that this plug exists! Could one add some 6mm spacer? Wilfried Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 I wouldnt as you are reducing the amount of thread available to hold it in. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fireman049 Posted December 26, 2014 Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 Thanks for all your help, fellers ~ I'm not going to bother ~ I'll stick with the standard plugs. I do however have a set of original, unused Champion L10 plugs I bought in 1958! Cheers ~ Tom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hi all Wilfred asked me to report back, if I went down the multi-electrode route. I have fitted a set of GKN BUT6ET plugs. After reading up on the specs of Bosch and GKN and listening to the forum, it was obvious that there was, technically, nothing to choose between them. Based on this, I went on price and availability and picked up the 6 GKN plugs, on ebay, for £8.00 delivered. I fitted them today and ran up the road and back. The starting was, by my standards impressive, the engine bit quickly and seems smoother, quicker. They are, without a doubt, much better than the standard plug and, I believe, a sound investment. Once I have put some miles on the car, I will let you know how I fare. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Hi John, sounds good so far. Should that be NGK. The plugs that came out; were they in good condition or in need of changing - you may not be comparing eggs with eggs. Roger Edited December 28, 2014 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Roger Hi Yes it should be NGK, I blame the red wine! The plugs that came out were new (less than 100 miles) 6EV single electrode These were an improvement on the std 6ES, and were a freebie from a mate It is amazing how each change; from ES to EV and then to multi-electode has shown a marked improvement in starting and cold running John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prefect Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Hi Chaps Seasons Greetings. My car runs reliably (that's done it!) but after reading the bit about NGK iridium I bought some and I concur, they seem to offer marked improvement. Yet to be tested on "real" roads. Will revert. Every little bit helps. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jersey Royal Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) Hi Chaps Seasons Greetings. My car runs reliably (that's done it!) but after reading the bit about NGK iridium I bought some and I concur, they seem to offer marked improvement. Yet to be tested on "real" roads. Will revert. Every little bit helps. Pete Peter was very impressed with his new plugs, but they should carry a warning, well in Peters case anyway.Something like " Be warned you may get stopped for Speeding" Yes these plugs are that good. It was really strange I was in front but Peter gets stopped, has to be the plugs, isnt that right Pete.? cheers Guy Edited December 28, 2014 by Jersey Royal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3739 Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Peter was very impressed with his new plugs, but they should carry a warning, well in Peters case anyway. Something like " Be warned you may get stopped for Speeding" Yes these plugs are that good. It was really strange I was in front but Peter gets stopped, has to be the plugs, isnt that right Pete.? cheers Guy Hi Guy I reckon it was the "Towel Rails" that swung it for you!! Hope you are well? Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 To Prefect----Pete I am glad that someone else is trying the NGK Iridium plugs! What sort of ignition system are you using? NGK told me that in their opinion that 40Kv coil was a minimum etc. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prefect Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Sorry took my eyes off the thread to watch the Marvels Avengers film - highly recommended. (Take brain out first). Hi Bruce an running Pertronix with "Lucas" sport coil. Am really impressed with iridium. Not impressed by support from CI Register Leader, left me to the Plod. Who actually was most reasonable, ie if some tw>@#t is going 30 in a 40 zone you are allowed a little over the limit to overtake him. Most reasonable I thought but embarrassing to be there with TR stopped behind the fuzz car and then the complete Jersey Section of the Classic Car club happen to drive past. Doh! Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 I wouldnt as you are reducing the amount of thread available to hold it in. Stuart. Stuart, The thread length is limited in the cylinderhead, not in the plug. The long plug with spacer holds as well as short plug. You seem to be rather critical regarding the 3 electrode plugs. I am glad that there is now so much positive feedback for these plugs: maybe the BUR6ET will become the new standard for TR6! Wilfried Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Pete, I am pleased that you are happy with the Iridiums. In the near future I will be going to my local Dyno. to carry out some tests. But I will also include doing some tests on spark plugs. I shall report back on the results. Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 (edited) Hi Wilfied, there may be good cause for being a little critical over something that the manufacturers do not make. Cobbling together something designed for another purpose sometimes produces the goods but not always. Ask yourself the question - why are they not available in a short thread version.? It could simply be a commercial decision, but!! Roger PS - there is a triple ground electrode available (NGK BP6HT or Bosch W7BTC) but is it wise/right to use it. Edited December 29, 2014 by RogerH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 If you read the link I posted you will be wiser they are best fitted when the plug hole is between the valves center of the piston.I had one tip melt in a QED kent lump with Cosworth piston's 500 miles from build Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 OE fit on tens of thousands of VAG engines with 2 valves per cylinder and chamber layout not unlike the Triumph one. Just think of it as a side electrode plug (which it is) that happens to have 3 electrodes for longer life. You can get 4 electrode versions too. I've not tried those. Surprising hostility to a simple enough idea. Those who've tried them seem to like them! Melted plugs are caused by the wrong heat range, lean mix or pre-ignition/detonation. Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Twenty years ago when I worked in motor factoring, multi-electrode plugs were relatively new - and in real terms, rather more expensive than they are now. As with most new developments, garage trade reaction was mixed, and cynical at best. A couple of my then customers had rolling road facilities, which enabled a modest amount of objective comparison to supplement the subjective views of users and road testers, The net result, as I saw it, was that some types of engines benefited significantly from triple electrode plugs - and that was demonstrated on the rollers by competent operators, back to back testing switching between different plugs and fine tuning for best results. No ifs, no buts. Other varieties of engine showed little or no measurable improvement on the dyno. Those contrasting results were similarly evident in subjective road testing, again switching between new plugs of single and multiple electrode equivalents. In my opinion there is no question that some engines will benefit from the more sophisticated plugs - but I wouldn't wish to generalise. For example, my 1990 Rover M16 engine gained little or nothing from a plug change, whereas the later T16 engines of 1994 and 96 vintage demonstrated noticeable improvement. The 1.6 Ford of 1986 gained nothing worth talking about, whereas the 1983 2.1 Audi ran very much more smoothly. In each case, need I add, the engines were properly tuned and tested with new OE spec against multi-electrode equivalents. We have TRs in varying states of tune, and I'd suggest that some engines are going to benefit more than others from experimentation with plugs - bearing in mind that valid comparisons relate to switching between new plugs, not from replacing old single electrodes with new multi-electrodes. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Alec On there piston's be it the spark will always find the shortest route and stick to it, as told to me by John Willcox years ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilfried Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Twenty years ago when I worked in motor factoring, multi-electrode plugs were relatively new - and in real terms, rather more expensive than they are now. As with most new developments, garage trade reaction was mixed, and cynical at best. A couple of my then customers had rolling road facilities, which enabled a modest amount of objective comparison to supplement the subjective views of users and road testers, The net result, as I saw it, was that some types of engines benefited significantly from triple electrode plugs - and that was demonstrated on the rollers by competent operators, back to back testing switching between different plugs and fine tuning for best results. No ifs, no buts. Other varieties of engine showed little or no measurable improvement on the dyno. Those contrasting results were similarly evident in subjective road testing, again switching between new plugs of single and multiple electrode equivalents. In my opinion there is no question that some engines will benefit from the more sophisticated plugs - but I wouldn't wish to generalise. For example, my 1990 Rover M16 engine gained little or nothing from a plug change, whereas the later T16 engines of 1994 and 96 vintage demonstrated noticeable improvement. The 1.6 Ford of 1986 gained nothing worth talking about, whereas the 1983 2.1 Audi ran very much more smoothly. In each case, need I add, the engines were properly tuned and tested with new OE spec against multi-electrode equivalents. We have TRs in varying states of tune, and I'd suggest that some engines are going to benefit more than others from experimentation with plugs - bearing in mind that valid comparisons relate to switching between new plugs, not from replacing old single electrodes with new multi-electrodes. Cheers Alec Alec, Thanks for your report. I understand that you have never found an engine which runs worse with multi-electrode plugs. As they are only marginally more expensive than the original plugs, it seems logical to me to put in the 3-electrode plugs at the next change: the engine wont run worse, but most probably better. Wilfried Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted January 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Said I would let Wilfred know how she went with the multi electrode plugs in Very well thank you. Started quickly, settled quickly and needed less 'choke' as she warmed up All in all, a bit of a result Thanks all Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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