Lee Dutton Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C554245 Hi all, does anyone have any knowledge,comments on this vehicle please? Sorry seem to have problems posting a link today in the normal way,any suggestions please regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Better if they learnt to fold the hood properly! Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Looks like a nice car to me. The wing mirrors and steering wheel may not be to everyone's taste and the dashboards and dash capping look a bit ratty in places but the body looks solid. No pics from under the bonnet so that is still an open question. Apparently has overdrive. The price would be the top of the range for me but I'm used to a car like that costing around $25k not GBP 25k. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I did consider importing one from the USA as the prices seem to be more reasonable,over here it is annoying that once a car is placed with a dealer the price goes up and they don't have any interest other than making money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Looks like a nice car to me. The wing mirrors and steering wheel may not be to everyone's taste and the dashboards and dash capping look a bit ratty in places but the body looks solid. No pics from under the bonnet so that is still an open question. Apparently has overdrive. The price would be the top of the range for me but I'm used to a car like that costing around $25k not GBP 25k. Stan I think Stan's estimates are quite accurate. But I think he is citing actual selling prices. Asking prices seem at least much closer. A quick sample of six U.S. TR3s on classiccars.com shows an average price of about $33,000 including one at $12,500.The high was 42,900. I'd think about making a lower offer where you are before booking the container. Also, it seems to me that the quality/value is often more variable than the price. Perhaps some of the British restorations are worth more? Not everybody over here does them as well as Stan. Tom Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomfpurves Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I don't think the price is unreasonable if its as good up close as it looks from a distance on the pics.The dealer is in business to make money and its naive to think otherwise but it may include some sort of warranty and there will be some negotiating room.The clocks alone could add £1000 depending on type and it has a Clackmanan registration which may support the interesting provenance. Nice colour too just don't like the chrome wheels. I think its very well worth a look. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hi Tom thanks for your comments, Clackmanan in Scotland? out of interest how do you find this sort of info out? Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 " over here it is annoying that once a car is placed with a dealer the price goes up and they don't have any interest other than making money. " Bit of a sweeping statement that . . . . . or if I might rephrase, brainless codswallop. I can think of quite a few classic car dealers who are also dyed-in-the-wool enthusiasts, and they've become classic dealers as a result of that enthusiasm, having previously achieved in other fields of employment. Those whose interests are purely financial tend to be the exception, and short-lived motor copers at that. There are many classic owners who really do not wish to get involved in selling a car privately, for any one of numerous good reasons. There's nothing like a classic car purchase to bring out the worst in some folks, their motoring enthusiasms notwithstanding, as is amply illustrated on any motoring forum. Richard Head is alive and well and driving a classic whatever. There is little more disheartening than a succession of ill-informed oafs turning up at one's home with, seemingly, nothing better to do in life than pick holes in someone else's pride and joy. Hence there is a place for auctioneers, and for retail dealers, from a potential seller's point of view. From a buyer's perspective, lots of would-be classic owners would rather not risk their savings on a purchase from some private seller equipped with more enthusiasm than knowledge, and sporting a full set of rose-coloured bins to boot. It's a minefield for the novice. As is buying at auction, and in both markets caveat emptor rules OK, you've little chance of succeeding in recovering funds from a private seller if it all ends in tears, and even less when a traditional auction house is involved. The classic dealer, on the other hand, is subject to all the panoply of consumer legislation - and has to take on board those responsibilities, ethical moral and financial alike. That costs money. He is running a business, which like any business has significant and substantial overheads to be paid, even as a one-man band, and generally speaking he also has a family to support by his hard labours. Nobody loves a car dealer, it's a tough way of making a living, and in the course of an average month he can expect to meet every extant member of the Head family . . . . and in full on drivel mode. From the potential buyer's viewpoint, dealing with a legitimate motor trader offers a considerable degree of reassurance, not least the knowledge that if the purchase doesn't come up to scratch then there's everyone from motoring associations to trading standards officers ready and willing to assist the consumer. That's insurance of a kind, the dealer's profit margin is the premium. No free lunches. Anyone who thinks selling classics is money for old rope should try it sometime. It's bloody hard graft. Only in the UK do we seem to suffer so badly from the idea that making an honest profit to earn an honest living is somehow immoral. No wonder so many Europeans and North Americans regard us as bonkers. They're too bloody right. Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) +1 with Alec. Because owning and running a classic car is our hobby and we'll gladly lie under it with oil dribbling down our neck, and putting untold hours into it to such a degree that if we thought honestly about how much somebody would have to pay you to do, it you'd realise that they wouldn't be able to pay you enough. I'm as keen as the next man not to pay over the odds, but to get the support and comfort from a decent trader who deals regularly with the more shady aspects of the motor world and disinfects them for me is a service worth paying for. Their costs will be our costs plus a small mark up for all the other paraphernalia that the retail market demands is in place. The dealers I see offering TRs for sale in the main are well known in TR circles and any unsympathetic treatment of customers is promptly reported on this forum or other media and would result in their general censure. Mick Richards Edited November 22, 2014 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rhino_mac Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I saw this car while viewing a Porsche Cayman to swap in for my day to day. It's not in bad condition from what I could see and has some nice touches. I wouldn't say it was stunning, or had a perfect interior but it is a nicer than some I've seen for sale at say, Beaulieu Garage recently (and is less money). In my opinion it has had an older restoration but it does have some very nice touches and, allegedly some (hill climb) history. His mechanic told me the engine bay was a bit of a mess cosmetically and I note there are no images of this on the advert. The dealer informed me he wasn't selling the car and was taking it off the market to make it concourse and sell it for £37,000 as "it would only cost about £6000" for the work. However, he was a really arrogant guy who (after making me wait in a sweltering office for 15 minutes, then walking off mid negotiation for a "very important" call) put me off completely so I didn't test drive the Cayman in the end. If he can't be bothered to give me decent customer service when I'm buying a car, the chances on him giving anything approaching customer service if something goes wrong is remote. Shame as he has some nice cars in stock and generally one or two nice classics but he left me fuming as I left his dealership so I'm back to considering the slightly older Cayman at another dealer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I've got a better TR3A than that for £20k - Chrome Wires, Overdrive, Rack & Pinion, Kenlowe, Leather interior etc etc But probably better for you to seek out a "bodged" example privately.... I sometimes choose not to sell cars to certain arrogant people.....as I dont have to... My business has grown out of a hobby with TR's over the last 25 years.... Like Alec says - it's actually hard graft.... maybe try it sometime.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Certainly wasn't supplied new with that registration, it looks like an age related plate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomfpurves Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hi Lee The plate carries a Clackmanan number .All the old RAC and RSAC handbooks provide a list of those.I do not see how anyone can say it was not supplied with that number until they see the history file on the car. It may well have been issued as age related but that does not detract from the identification of the origin of the number and in this case does seem to support the history.....maybe just luck. By the way TR is Southampton! Having read what people think I definitely think its worth a look. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thanks for all the positive feedback what a really great forum this is, where one can ask questions and always (well almost!!) get positive and constructive answers,I have found it very helpful over the past few years when I have been rebuilding various TR's. I find it sad however that some self opinionated members have to be rude and insulting to other members because they have there own opinions which must be shared by all........... or so they think. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether right or wrong I will continue to use this forum and believe it to be a great source of information and used by many helpful members,and I understand everyone does have their own opinion and can express it but in a polite manner. Regards to all Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 The plate carries a Clackmanan number .All the old RAC and RSAC handbooks provide a list of those.I do not see how anyone can say it was not supplied with that number until they see the history file on the car. It may well have been issued as age related but that does not detract from the identification of the origin of the number and in this case does seem to support the history.....maybe just luck. All Clackmannan numbers were in the format SLxxxx up to 1964 when they started using the suffix system. This is because the small Scottish counties issued so few, Clackmannan only issuing about 4000 in total during the sidescreen years. ASLxxx to YSLxxx were taken over by the DVLA and issued to any vehicle as age related or re-registrations which is why one sees so many on classic cars. I am not sure of the connection between Clackmannan and Arran as Arran was in the (even smaller) old county of Bute. However this is probably irrelevant as the Countess of Arran in question had married the Irish Earl of Arran. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hi Mike thanks for going to the trouble with that information very interesting..........I'm learning all the time fascinating stuff regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I find it sad however that some self opinionated members have to be rude and insulting to other members because they have there own opinions which must be shared by all........... or so they think. True but it is negligible quantity, there's only one and he's part of the folklore of the forum. Opinions are free so sometimes half-baked; overdone or squarely indigestible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 True but it is negligible quantity, there's only one and he's part of the folklore of the forum. Opinions are free so sometimes half-baked; overdone or squarely indigestible Opinions are like Bums...everybody's got one. However that doesn't mean everybody's opinion is worth the same. Sometimes expressing your opinion without considering all the implications contained (we've all done it) exposes yourself to other people and their ire if their greater experience clashes with your opinion. Nobody dies...and hopefully the greater experience shared allows all who view it to consider both outlooks of the opinions expressed and consider overall which seems to better fit the world we live in without recourse to damp flannels and smelling salts. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Couldn't agree with you more Mick....but if I don't agree with someones opinion, even if they have greater experience than most I wouldn't sink to being rude or insulting to them. best regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 " and they don't have any interest other than making money." Hardly my idea of expressing an opinion about dealers " in a polite manner, " and one which invited a response in kind . . . . Cheers Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's maybe worth re-visiting your initial comments Lee......I'm sure it wasn't meant in a malicious way but it was rather broad brush and generalised.. I'm not particularly offended (to old and ugly for that) but If I was just interested in making money I wouldn't be dealing in TR's... As some of you know (and some of you don't) I had a successful Computer Software career for many years.....That now enables me to mess about with Classic Cars and TR's specifically, mainly for TR Register members through recommendation.... My current overheads are pretty big.....say £70k per year.....I maybe source and sell 25-30 cars a year.......not difficult to do the maths....It's lucky to break even.... Some people prefer to sell to dealers so they dont have to deal with mindless timewasters, tyre kickers and no shows.... So if you take into account overheads, VAT, Income Tax, Accountants Fees, Expenses, Fuel, Running a Truck, Trade Insurance, Phone Line, Broadband, Business Rates, Wages (not for me) Water Bills, Electric Bills, Mobile Phone Bills....etc etc It aint that rosey....in fact, making money....that would be nice... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lee Dutton Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Mark, I'm sure that your description of how it all works is an eye opener to everyone reading the forum, perhaps my initial comments were a bit too broad and the guys in the trade I have dealt with are purely money driven, good to have some genuinely enthusiastic traders out there.....I really appreciate your point of view and I am sure others reading this will do too. regards Lee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Lee - Maybe I'm the exception to the rule....never thought of that!! And I know exactly what you mean about some traders (not all), I could name a few that only have 1 agenda....themselves and $$$ But that is probably a whole new thread in itself.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 Lee They was chap don't worry about it As for Marko I have traded with many dealers and found him ( the old git ?) one of the best and always trustworthy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Horner Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I think harsh words for a lot of operatives in the motor trade are not that unfair. I would argue it has more than its fair share of cowboys and mountebanks (and if I recall correctly, some on those who have stepped in to support the trade have in the past made some pretty strong general criticisms in the past). I agree that there are some genuine, shining exceptions to the rule, but if any trade deserves general unthinking pillory, its the motor trade in all its forms! You only have to look on other threads about nightmare restoration bodgers for comments about low standards being not uncommon. Clearly Marko has a great reputation and took exception (and has courteously explained why) to the generalisation but it seems he isn't driven purely by profit, others often are. When they are driven by profit, the words of Mr Alfred Doolittle are apposite - "morals governor? Can't afford them." I know people will often say that you can't run a successful business by simply ripping people off. I am an accountant who acts for lots of different business and has respect for anyone who sets one up. However, one thing I have come to realise is that there are a lot of people who have made a lot of money very quickly by simply ripping people off- be it staff, customers, creditors or all three. Well, tin hat time perhaps, but I felt a bit sorry for the OP and the righteous indignation that followed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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