aleda Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 Hi all - took the 4a out for a spin today and heard a ticking noise behind the dash - then the speedo stopped working - just asking if there is anything simple I can check before taking her to the garage? Whilst writing, I have an oil leak, it's from the gearbox as its a bit thicker than engine oil. I thought it was more than it should be so took her to the garage to get it checked as I needed an engine oil change and a couple of split pins fitting. They checked the gearbox and axle oil and said nothing to worry about. Got her home and every time I take her out of the garage there is quite a pool of oil. I am guessing a gasket needs replacing. Should I take her back to the garage that said all was ok but it's 16 miles away but a specialist or just take to a garage round the corner who are mg specialist but use for my daughters punto? Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted August 26, 2013 Report Share Posted August 26, 2013 If you can get your hand in behind the dash, check that the round "nut" holding the cable in hasn't unscrewed and let the end of the cable slip out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hi Christine, so you got the electrical loom sorted then, that's good. Speedo - as LJ states it could be the round retaining nut on the end of the cable has undone. Usually it is the cable that breaks and the noise you can hear are the two ends grinding away until they don't. If you can take it off the gauge (hand up the back of gauge to undo) you may be able to pull the inner cable out. If the far end has a square shape about 1" long then all is well. You will probably find the inner cable is too short due to a break. The cable runs down to the gearbox and enters the box by the front left corner of the drivers seat. You may be lucky and find that the carpet can be lifted and show an access panel to the area of concern. Otherwise, out with drivers seat, off with the 'H' support section, off with the G/B cover - tedious work. If you need to strip it down as above then you can look for oil leaks as well. Regarding your 'pool' of oil. The odd drip is accepted but puddles/pools are not good. Don't take it back to the chap who said it was OK. Have you spoken to your local group about the best local garage for you problem. Manvers is North of you in Suffolk - they are very good. Get the oil and speedo sorted together. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pogo Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Christine On my TR6 the speedo used to 'click' when it was trying to turn over one of the thousand miles marks (ie from 75999 to 76000). It started to click and would take a few (may be 5 or so) miles to turn over properly, then it would be OK until 76999. This went on for a few turns but then stopped all together. Then I took the speedo out and sent it to JDO for repair. http://www.jdo1.com/Contact-Details.html He sorted it out along with the needle jumping around. All OK now. I would try the other things above first, but if that fails may be worth speaking to JDO. No connection - just a satisfied customer. Cheers Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike3md Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Christine, Re Roger's good advice - if you don't have an access panel beside the entry point of the drive into the tail of the gearbox, it is possible to cut one without removing the gb tunnel - a 2" hole saw used carefully will do the trick, and the cover made up from a shaped piece of aluminium and a couple of self tappers. You just have to remove the driver's seat (2 nuts & bolts), and pull back the carpet in the area concerned. mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted August 27, 2013 Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 my Seized up speedo (after a 2 year rebuild) caused the failure of the angle drive gear and screwed up the cable, as your speedo was working this may not apply but if the cable is too long this can also damage the angle drive. just a tip to check the speedo works before damage occurs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted August 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hello everyone - thanks so much for advices, I knew you would help. Yes Roger the wiring loom is fitted, thinking about re veneering the dash next but its still on the back burner at the moment. Have been behind the dash, what a spaghetti junction! Very intriguing....anyway, the nut is tight and haven't the courage to delve further just yet. It has been suggested to me that it may be the speedo at fault and to check if the milometer works so took her out for another test today and the milometer doesn't work either. The needle has always bounced a bit. Am going to get leak and speedo sorted together, just wish I could do/understand more myself. Thank you Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR4A1965 Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 Hi Christine. My speedo used to bounce too. I had the speedo serviced/repaired at http://www.jdo1.com/Speedometers.html for £30. I also put a new speedo angle drive in. You can see info relating to that here. http://tr4a.weebly.com/known-tr4a-issues.html I fitted a new speedo cable and as Roger says, it is a mission due to the location of the angle drive. You have to get to it from inside the car. I made an inspection hatch on the gearbox tunnel if this 'Sod-of-a-job should ever need doing again. MINE ALL WORKED OUT but.....I have heard of the speedo still bouncing after all of the above has been done. The guy at JDO said a lot of people get a kink in the cable or run it in a non conventional route and it kinks the cable leading to bounce. It would be worth checking to see if the cable run is not making too many twist and turns enroute to the back of the speedo. Best Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Badfrog Posted August 28, 2013 Report Share Posted August 28, 2013 HI, Jumping on the topic for a tech question: Can you install a TR5 mechanic speedo on a TR4? My preliminary research shows both cars have a 15-tooth pinion, but that the full assembly differs between TR4 and TR5 and then there is the question of the straight or angular contraption. http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewP ... dexID=2001http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewP ... dexID=2489http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID200094 http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID200112http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID200126 What is your opinion? Badfrog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Hi Paul, thanks for that link for speedo repair. The trip meter has never worked and thinking it all over I think it's worth £30 to get the speedo serviced/repaired whilst ordering a new cable, then the bouncy needle will be rectified. Bit boring to know what speed I am doing though! Cheers everyone and let's hope the dry weather continues. I love driving my car! Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted September 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hello again, well having spoken to trgb to order my parts I have disconnected the cable from the back of the speedo as Roger suggested and grabbed the square metal end piece which I hope is the inner cable and tried pulling with pliers. It won't come out so assume its either the angle drive or the speedo itself at fault? Not quite sure what to do next. Angle drive is £36, speedo service is £60. As a point of interest the cable runs behind the bonnet catch on rhs of driver, into the engine compartment via the back of the brake and clutch fluid reservoirs, across the front of the battery then into would that be the angle drive which is below the distributor cap. Am wondering if I have disconnected the right cable? Hmmmm, it's a quandary. Oh well, I am learning Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Christine, Hi, that's the Rev counter cable you've traced, if that cable is going to the back of the Speedo then something's on the wonk!!. On my car the speedo is on the left(directly behind the steering wheel), rev counter on the right. The speedo cable comes out of the bulkhead close to the battery and then descends below the carbs and curves back towards the gearbox close to the starter motor ..... so back to the cockpit for you!! Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted September 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hiya, oops, false alarm as that cable is the rev counter! Just taken her out for a spin and that little square metal thing on the end of the speedo cable spins round and round. So, does that mean the angle drive is ok and it's the speedo that's failed? They are £60 at JDO now by the way. Gosh Rob, that was a quick reply, yes been back in the cockpit ha ha. If it is defo the speedo, is it easy to remove? Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi Christine, speedo removal is fairly easy. Get your hand behind the gauge and undo the drive cable. - already done. With your hand behind the gauge run your fingers around the outer rim. You will come across two sticky out things with round knurled nuts(pointing forwards) - one will have an earth wire connected. Undo the knurled nuts. Under the nuts is a stand-off that simply pulls out. With these off the gauge will fall out - get ready to catch it. Don't pull it all the way out - remove the main/dip light and the illumination light. These can be quite stiff - lever gently with a screw driver. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted September 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Thanks Roger, got floury hands now so will try that on Thursday, thank you so much. Am so chuffed to get this far, I am right that the angle drive is ok? Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Hi Christine, ....as a quick check that you have the right cable, if the inner cable revolves when the engine is running but not in gear (ie car not moving) then you are still looking at the rev counter cable, conversely so long as the cable revolves when the car is moving then it is OK and your angle drive is OK to, .... if this is the case then the speedo is up the bucket!! and it's time for a new one. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted September 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Yep, took her for a spin and the cable did spin so have disconnected the right one. Will remove the speedo per Rogers instructions on Thursday and get it shipped off for repair. Bit of nuisance the price has doubled butI would rather keep the original. Next is the bill to fit, ouch but I can get the gear oil leak sorted at same time and temperature sender unit and heater valve cable clamp. Hopefully that will sort high temperature gauge reading. Thanks again Christine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 As stated in all the best workshop manuals, "fitting is the reversal of removal", if you can take it out , you can put it back!!, no need to pay that bill, save your money for the oil leak etc, you'll get there in the end, .... then keep driving it!! Good luck, Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grahamgl Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 In my experience, albeit not vast, the speedo cable inner should pull out freely, at least mine did when I fitted a re-veneered dash and uprated heater box. With the speedo removed from the car and the inner cable removed, if the square end of the wire is inserted into the back of the speedo and turned a little by hand, the speedo needle will flicker. If you follow Mike's advice and cut a hole in the gearbox cover you could fit a blanking plug rather than cutting up sheet aluminium. Here is a supplier that I used for some plugs foir my gearbox cover. There is no connection a far as I know with the other Moss and they will provide free samples! http://www.mossexpress.co.uk/push-fit-plugs-343764 Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) There is not much to go wrong in the gauge itself. Faults are much more likely to be associated with the cables. Before you send the gauge away try spinning it by hand. A sharpened wooden stick (kebab) where the cable goes and fiddle the stick between your fingers. Dont break it off in there! You wont get a steady reading but the needle should flick up. Got to rotate the same way as the needle moves. The cable spins a magnet which drags the needle with it. Edited September 4, 2013 by AlanT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 It go's anticlockwise Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Salisbury Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Only if you're looking at the back of the speedo, if you're watching from the front to see the needle move then you've got to twiddle clockwise. Cheers Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 http://www.tr3a.info/PDFs/speedo.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aleda Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hello everyone, changed my floury hands to greasy hands! Am so chuffed I got the speedo out, what a fiddle though. Located the bottom knurled nut fairly easily but the top one was a 'b' to find.....after removal I see that a piece at the end of a corrugated hose (heating?) has dropped, should be attached to the 'heated windscreen' I think. Well, I had to try the wooden stick in the back didn't I...and yes the needle jumps slightly when I turn it clockwise with dial facing me. Hmm, perhaps I should still send it off, , not too far off 50 years old after all. Just hope it's not the angle drive after all but the speedo cable did turn when driving. Would it be worth ordering a speedo cable anyway? It was replaced in 1992 and cost £7.50 then, only only £9.50 now. Christine PS I can drive her back into the garage without the earth connected to the speedo I hope Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanT Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 You can bet that for some reason you have not yet discovered the cable did not drive the speedo round. Can you get hold of the square bit sticking out of the cable and turn it with your fingers. You wont do this it its properly mated at the gearbox end. Take a pic of the cable so we can all look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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