villa.1 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Hi there, I have triple webers on my 6. Its been set up twice now on a rolling road and still has massive flat/ dead spots at low revs. I'm seriously considering the revington efi conversion, it's very expensive and I don't want to throw good money after bad but I have no plans to sell my car so if it makes a massive improvement to the drivabilty Might be worth the investment? Really interested in getting your thoughts, Am I giving up too soon on the webers? Has anyone done the same? Thanks Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marko Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I had massive problems with a car I bought that had the EFI fitted (a stunning royal blue TR5) - it was the Webcon EFI stuff and the car developed a mis-fire. It was eventually identified to be a problem with the ECU and the only people that could repair/ fix it were Weber / Webcon - Although they were very helpful, it was very time consuming and very expensive for the 6 cylinder cars, in fact there were no spare units available anywhere in the UK and there was / is only 1 man that could fix it. They ended up building a completely new ECU for me and it took 6 weeks to do......Circa £2k for the repair and about £900 for the initial strip down and diagnosis - I wouldn't go near another car with this fitted - but I know an awful lot more about the system now than I did before......this was about 2 years ago though and the car has been running beautifully ever since (famous last words!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Hi Steve, many people have webers on their 4 and 6 pot engines that work very well. You obviously have a problem that needs resolving - get it sorted and stick with the webers. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nick Jones Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 There are other EFI methods apart from Webcon...... Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Get the webers sorted,where did you take it ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
villa.1 Posted April 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 yorkshire Triumphs, they use someone local for the rolling road dont know who. Dont get me wrong they did a great job on ALL the other stuff its just its not running great and they did say they thought my webers were not the best type for the TR6 ( although i did buy them as a TR6 kit which is a little frustrating!). THanks for your help as always. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Millward Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 What Nick said....there are other systems. I wouldn't change back for quids...EFI rocks. Cheers Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Austin Branson Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hi, Steve, my view is that for engine set-up, a rolling road is not the best option. You may need someone with a dynamometer. This is how the likes of BMC, SU, Jaguar etc got their engines sorted for use, and is really the only way. It does, of course, mean that the engine will have to come out. I know of only one bloke, in the Tamworth region (Staffs), but you should be able to find one closer than that. Those carbs WILL work, and work well, as long as there are no other problems with the engine and electrical systems. Let us know how you get on, and good luck. Austin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JJohn Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hi Steve, As you are in Harrogate you should take the car to Motoscope in Northallerton. The owner, Richard Pocklington, is a setting up expert and I would think that if he can't fix it, you have a serious problem. I have no interest other than being a very satisfied customer. Tel: 01609 780155. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Provided everything else is OK i.e. all the ignition system and fuel delivery system is up to scratch then take it here. http://www.rollingroadregister.com/dynos/dennis-vessey Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomtr250 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 From Personal experience I can support what Stuart says, Dennis Vessey knows his stuff with webers Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 He is the man. and not to far from you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mk1PI Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you have Webers get them working right before even considering EFI - If it can't be set up by an acknowledged expert (ie Dennis Vessey etc) I would look further than the induction - maybe a poor cam / head / exhaust combination that no induction variation would really solve. I say this as I have a EFI on a bitsa 2500 engine that was originally on HS6 carbs , then twin point EFI and now megasquirt multipoint + mapped ignition - but it has always been a bit of a dead loss as an engine bhp and torque wise. The megasquirt definitely makes it run OK but nowhere near as well as a good standard PI engine on Lucas PI. It's only saving grace on EFI currently is good mpg. Basically the current engine has an inappropriate cam and poor head and no combination of induction can really fix it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gt6s Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) What Nick said....there are other systems. I wouldn't change back for quids...EFI rocks. Cheers Tony Me too, my DTA has proven it's worth. And 100% reliable. Edited April 30, 2012 by gt6s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Me too, my DTA has proven it's worth. And 100% reliable. I but when it does fail your stuffed end of. you can always get a pi or webered going again and that is the best part of running the old cars Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D1070 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Steve, I have run my 5 on webers for the past 5 years and 30k miles without issue, i would confirm that once they are set up by a professional who understands webers and there application with our engines there should not be any problems. As Stuart says it does require all other aspects of the fuel and ignition system to be good.EFI is a step too far(Neils point) in my book, we are dealing with an old sports car at the end of the day and own them because of the character and style that mod boxes just do not have, cheers, Laurence Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mk1PI Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Steve, I have run my 5 on webers for the past 5 years and 30k miles without issue, i would confirm that once they are set up by a professional who understands webers and there application with our engines there should not be any problems. As Stuart says it does require all other aspects of the fuel and ignition system to be good.EFI is a step too far(Neils point) in my book, we are dealing with an old sports car at the end of the day and own them because of the character and style that mod boxes just do not have, cheers, Laurence I almost agree Laurence but I couldn't resist converting at least one of my cars to EFI - all self engineered using cheap off the shelf or off the scrap yard parts. That way I at least know how it works and tuning it is very instructive to tuning any car - the difference is you can do it on the fly with a keyboard - and how many mod boxes can be tuned by a laptop using homebuilt EFI and a 300quid ECU? I see it as the logical progression of the self modified classic car hobby really.... thats what all classic cars are afterall an expensive hobby! .... that said I love the simplicity and fixability of the originals - whether its webers, Lucas PI or twin carbs Edited April 30, 2012 by Mk1PI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denis Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Webbers are for Racing cars...NOTHING wrong with replacing them with the Original Lucas Pi system that it was designed to run! My standard Lucas Pi has run perfectly reliably these past 39 years, with the occassional replaced injector, and I once had to have an exchange M/unit...same pump tho! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 Webber drives a F1 car sorry could not resist Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) What throws me here is that Triumph Competition Dept went to Lucas PI instead of multi weber set up for the saloon rally cars as they could get the same power but with better economy out of the 2500 cc engine. Any other comments on this? Cheers Peter W Edited May 1, 2012 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mk1PI Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think the fact they were also producing a Lucas injected car TR5 and later the Mk1 and 2 saloons would not go unnoticed as a potential bit of publicity - when the department went over to BMC abingdon control I don't think there was any love for the Lucas PI - in fact Abingdon converted one of the 2.5PI's (WRX902H) onto Webers for the Scottish rally in 1970 - which it went and won https://plus.google.com/photos/115471290043093657458/albums/5295150145107158721?banner=pwa&gpsrc=pwrd1#photos/115471290043093657458/albums/5295150145107158721 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ntc Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think the fact they were also producing a Lucas injected car TR5 and later the Mk1 and 2 saloons would not go unnoticed as a potential bit of publicity - when the department went over to BMC abingdon control I don't think there was any love for the Lucas PI - in fact Abingdon converted one of the 2.5PI's (WRX902H) onto Webers for the Scottish rally in 1970 - which it went and won https://plus.google....150145107158721 Indeed they did trying to get together some scans for pogo to sort out asap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racey Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hi Steve Having run webers on my last TR6 I had them setup at Motoscope in Northallerton - ok but still not right so I buggered off to see Mr Bogg (Senior) at Bogg Brothers of East Lutton. BINGO! This man is well respected in the world of performance tuning of weber carbs, be it fire breathing or economy setup this guy is without doubt the dogs bollocks & not a million miles from you. you can (or could) book a time slot with him and watch him at work on your pride - Brilliant Graham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 There was a political dimension to the preference for Lucas over Weber . . . . the British motor industry already ailing and looking to the government for support, Lucas was always going to look better than Weber for a premium product. Devaluation didn't help either, the price of Webers rocketed in 1967-8 as a result of devaluation in the UK and inflation in Italy. Meanwhile there's little point in EFI if the car in question already has Webers, just get someone who knows their job to sort the Webers. Anyway, EFI isn't an investment, it's just another way of spending yet more money. Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shezbo Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 As I see this whole piece: Lucas PI - great if sorted, however design has floors, easily upset and old technology Webers - great if sorted, proven (old) technology, non standard. EFI - great if sorted, proven (new) technology, non standard. It is not clear cut, it is horses for courses, NON are perfect, if I was the original Topic starter I would get the Weber's sorted as he has obviouslt dispenced with PI, as he thought it was poor for whatever reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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