randall977 Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) I recently rebuilt my engine and then had an ordeal with the clutch which would not disengage - this lead me to replace every clutch component. In the end a longer TR6 master cylinder rod enabled the cutch to disengage so that it could put it into gear. Anyhow, the engine has recently delevoped a worrying random clanking noise which sounds like it is coming from the bottom end, it does not relate to the rpm. I firstly removed the timing chain cover to look at the tensioner - it's fine. I then removed the sump - all fine. It's very hard to pinpoint the noise but it almost sounds like a piece of metal being picked up and dropped??? Could it be the thrust bearing hitting something? As I mentioned I had lots of trouble with the clutch but never really found the problem... Thanks, Christian Edited March 5, 2011 by randall977 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Good idea to check the crank end float. With the engine stopped try to lever the crank forward and back- Do not get too excited and bend the pulley with your lever though. There should be no visible (or audible) movement unless you have laser beam measuring eye sight and can distinguish 0.004" to 0.006" !!! Check also the water pump pulley is not wobbling or loose on the pump shaft. This is relevant to water pumps with a detachable pulley. Release the tension on the belt, grab the pulley a feel if it wobbles (engine not running), also try tightening the pump pulley nut . I have experienced this a few times over the years and it sounds horridly expensive. The pulley runs loose and the woodruffe key in the pump shaft eats into the pulley. I suspect that problem was always caused by over tightening the wide fan belt. Cure is a pump and pulley assy. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hi Christian, having done the above, have a look at the plate at the front of the gearbox - behind the sump. if this is loose it will rattle. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) The water pump is new and it was fitted just before the noise started but there doesn't seem to be any movement in the pulley (I tried wiggling it by hand after taking off the belt...) - shame as it would have been an easy fix! The clutch housing plate is secure and the crank has no movement... These are really good suggestions though so please keep them coming. It must be something like that as it suddenly just started. I would hope that if it were anything serious the engine would not be running well- which it is...? Edited March 5, 2011 by randall977 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alec Pringle Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 I've known the arm of the fuel pump make some strange noises as it starts to announce it's about to go awol . . . . A loose baffle plate in the sump can also make some dire sounds, even more so if there's a blocked breather intermittently pressurising and depressurising at random . . . . Then again it's worth looking at the engine mounts, if the metalastik starts to unstick, the whole darn engine can be on the move . . . . Cheers, Alec Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks Alec, I will work through the list tomorrow... I think my initial concern is that it was something catastrophic - it's less likely to be the case now... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomMull Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) The water pump is new and it was fitted just before the noise started but there doesn't seem to be any movement in the pulley (I tried wiggling it by hand after taking off the belt...) - shame as it would have been an easy fix! The clutch housing plate is secure and the crank has no movement... Christian, Did you happen to run it with the belt off? If you still get the noise you can eliminate the water pump and dynamo (alternator?). Also, it's my experience that if you can change or eliminate the sound by playing with the clutch pedal, then it's clutch related (or possibly end float but you've eliminated that possibility). I'd also put a listening device (I use a very long screwdriver) on the starter, the distributor, the timing cover and anywhere else you can think of. Tom Edited March 6, 2011 by TomMull Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graeme Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Chris, Make sure that the half moon plate at the front of the gearbox is installed the right way round. It can and does interfere with the flywheel if installed the wrong way round. I hope this turns out to be an easy fix for as you have had some trials with this car!! Cheers Graeme Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodri Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Is the starter motor bendix picking up on the flywheel starter ring? Shims between block and starter will eliminate. Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlejim Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) I'm with Graeme and RogerH. If the little plate at the bottom of the flywheel is on back to front it makes a bit of noise as all the POR-15 gets scraped off. The sad part is it seems to fit better back to front.(personal experience) Edited March 6, 2011 by littlejim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'm with Graeme and RogerH. If the little plate at the bottom of the flywheel is on back to front it makes a bit of noise as all the POR-15 gets scraped off. The sad part is it seems to fit better back to front.(personal experience) You guys have got me thinking now. Is this the right way round for the half moon plate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 If its details of that gearbox bell housing bottom plate then look at this previous post http://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=23481 there's an example of the noise there as well. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 Comprehensive thread that but it doesn't say which way round is correct. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 If we're talking about the clutch housing cover plate then the lip should face towards the sump - the way you have it in your photo. In fact I can't really see how you could have it the wrong way round as the bolts would crush the plate... I thought my engine looked nice and clean but yours looks like new - nice job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 If we're talking about the clutch housing cover plate then the lip should face towards the sump - the way you have it in your photo. In fact I can't really see how you could have it the wrong way round as the bolts would crush the plate... I thought my engine looked nice and clean but yours looks like new - nice job! Phew. Even in my ham fisted way I couldn't see how it could fit any other way. The reason it's so clean is that it's sitting on a trolley and has never been run yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted March 6, 2011 Report Share Posted March 6, 2011 In fact I can't really see how you could have it the wrong way round as the bolts would crush the plate... As more than one person posted earlier, it goes on the wrong way just as easily with no symptoms of a problem until you press the clutch when running Quote Link to post Share on other sites
peejay4A Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 As more than one person posted earlier, it goes on the wrong way just as easily with no symptoms of a problem until you press the clutch when running I'm clearly the exception then. There's no way I could have fitted mine the other way round from the way it is in the picture without crushing the flanged edge. Maybe we're talking about a different plate but I can't think which, or possibly there were different variants of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Elliott Posted March 7, 2011 Report Share Posted March 7, 2011 Is the noise a one-time "CLANK"? I had a starange noise like a dozen tea-spoons rattling in a glass cup in my 1958 TR3A. I finally found the source of the problem and repaired it. The gear teeth on the starter pinion on the starter motor drive was "clinking" against the teeth on the ring-gear of the flywheel. It was not retracting far enough. Are you sure you installed the clutch lining with the correct side facing the flywheel ? The lining should be stamped or engraved with the words - "This side towards the flywheel". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 100% sure all clutch related items have been correctly installed - I did it four times! The starter is out at the mo as I've had constant problems with it - turned out to be a dodgy insulating washer! So it would be great if it was the problem, I have an additional flange to add... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Smokey Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 One possibility is the key and shaft for the oil pump and distributor drive. If worn, they can produce an intermittent noise at idle. The shims that Moss was supplying for setting the clearance at the bottom of the shaft were much too thick - about .015" - until recently. They should be less than .005", which I got them to supply after some discussion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geo_Hahn Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I, too, had a TR4 clutch that didn't want to engage. Tried a few tricks to get it to work (longer pushrod, different hole in the operating arm, etc). I also got a clanking sound, but not for long as the drive train soon siezed up. This is what I found upon pulling the gearbox: The inset shows the broken fulcrum and loose pin. I think they were the clanking but that piece dangling from the pressure plate is what finally caught and stopped me cold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Did you c pin the Clutch fork to the shaft? If so, bearing in mind the difficulty you had engaging the clutch I wonder if the Square headed fork pin had disenaged and has now dropped out? This happend to me. It had initially got part way out and the C pin I had installed started to bend so I had the clutch problem you describe & "fixed" it the same way. Then it fell out completely and started to bang about in the bell housing. With no support at all from the sqaure head pin the C pin worked its way out too & the clutch wouldn't disengae. I always wire the square headed pin now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Davidw Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Did you c pin the Clutch fork to the shaft? If so, bearing in mind the difficulty you had engaging the clutch I wonder if the Square headed fork pin had disenaged and has now dropped out? This happend to me. It had initially got part way out and the C pin I had installed started to bend so I had the clutch problem you describe & "fixed" it the same way. Then it fell out completely and started to bang about in the bell housing. With no support at all from the sqaure head pin the C pin worked its way out too & the clutch wouldn't disengae. I always wire the square headed pin now. Er sorry didn't see the reply above. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randall977 Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Pretty nasty! I'm 100% sure that my clutch mechanism is fine, all new and all correct - I know it too well! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 ...now come on Christian, you only had that box in and out about four times . Are you really sure it's OK Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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