Update - Body Shell ID Tags - Success

[angelfj]

 

I have been working on this project for some time now. I have tried a number of methods, but until recently, the results have been disappointing. I believe that this latest tag is a faithful reproduction of the original. I am using .020 brass stock and an 80 - year old embossing machine that I found at an auction.

 

Cheers, Frank

 

[tr3timme]

That's impressive, Frank. Are you going into production with these tags now? I ask because both of my brass tags went missing (I suspect sandblasted away) during my car's body-off rebuild in 1986. Fortunately I've still got a record of at least one of the numbers on my old logbook, and I think there's a method of working one out, based on the other's serial....

Cheers, Tim.

[tr3timme]

Thanks for the PM, Frank. I've tried to PM you back, but our computer line filter is on the blink and it looks like the PM didn't go. I am very keen to take up your offer. I will go and check the number on my 3's logbook and then try and research (possibly from Bill Piggott's book) how to work out the EB number.

I will get back to you!

Regards, Tim.

[TR 2100]

I will go and check the number on my 3's logbook and then try and research (possibly from Bill Piggott's book) how to work out the EB number.

The EB number (bodyshell number) and TS commission number bear a general relationship

but there is no way you can "work out" the EB number.

 

The EB number (and the 6-digit 'vehicle' number) should be available if you ask Bill P to do a

trace on your car. I don't know what information is provided as standard on the Certificate

but I'm sure they are included in the Build record.

 

AlanR

[angelfj]

The EB number (bodyshell number) and TS commission number bear a general relationship

but there is no way you can "work out" the EB number.

 

The EB number (and the 6-digit 'vehicle' number) should be available if you ask Bill P to do a

trace on your car. I don't know what information is provided as standard on the Certificate

but I'm sure they are included in the Build record.

 

AlanR

 

Alan: Both numbers appear on my BMIHT Certificate.

[Don Elliott]

Frank sent me a new set of number plates in brass. I plan to still use the original EB number plate because it's still so good. But for the past 16 years, I have used a big number plate that a local TR friend gave me from a TR he scrapped. My original one (the lower one) got corroded and eaten away by the battery acid. But it wasn't the right number as per my Heritage Build Record. Because it looked good, no judges ever deducted points for it in concours events. But now I have the right number stamped out by Frank and I plan to install it when my shell comes back from the re-spray. I had to drill a new hole to the right side of the new brass number plate and trim off about 1/2". Also I had to slot the hole at the left end so it would fit the existing original holes.

 

Frank seems to have overcome this now.

 

Thanks Frank

[tr3timme]

I've now confirmed my (6 - figure) body number - but unfortunately, Don, the EB number is not on my car's birth certificate! As Bill Piggott says, there is a reasonable correlation between commission number and the EB number, with the latter generally being close to, but slightly above, the TS no.

Could any sidescreen member with a late TR2 or early 3 (say in the TS 8,000s up to 9,500 or so) possibly check their EB number and give me an idea of how much further advanced the EB number is from their car's commission number? My number is 9025.

I could then take a couple of examples and average out, so that even though it wouldn't be likely to be spot-on, it would put me near enough for my satisfaction so that I could get the 2 brass tags made up (pun intended)!

 

Tim.

[johnhodges]

Hi Frank

I am another owner whose body tags have gone missing, and would be grateful if you could supply me with a pair.

I will also have to research the numbers as I have no reliable record of them.

Regards John

[johnhodges]

Hi Tim

I have a slightly later 3 TS12785 and the EB number is EB12596 the six figure body number is 845720, so this indicates that the EB number is slightly lower than the TS number, not the other way round, this is also true of two other cars I have, TS24541 has EB24189, and TS62946 has EB59668. I hope this helps.

My problem is a 2 which I am restoring which is TS3686, I have no reliable record of either body tag numbers, the previous owner assured me he had these but has been unable to find them, I will have to get Bill to do a search.

Regards John

[Nigel Lay]

On TS952 the other numbers are - EB934, the number underneath is 726933 and the plate on the front chassis cross member is Z19. Quite what the 726933 & Z19 mean I don't know. This does confirm that the EB numbers as John said have always run lower than the TS number.

Nigel

[mike ellis]

I guess some clarification is required here, as you know nothing was cast in stone where S-T were concerned but the following is the best we know.

 

EB numbers are believed to be given by S-T to the trimmed body, they bear some correlation with the commission number but can be a matter of hundreds over or under. We don't have many of these in the records as they do not generally appear on either the Heritage or Bill Piggott traces.

 

The other 6/7 figure body numbers are believed to be issued by Mulliners (who built the bodies) and fall into discrete batches. Again there is some correlation with commission numbers but there can be a wide variation e.g. two cars with commission numbers within 5 digits have body numbers differing by hundreds. The records show many more of these as they generally appear on the traces.

 

The meaning of the plate on the chassis is not known, the commonest is Z28 but Z26 and Z27 also appear. Nigel's Z19 is new to me but I am sure there are others.

 

I know there are many owners out there who have not sent me copies of their traces, the more I get the better our records become.

 

I hope to have all this information at Malvern so if you are interested in checking anything please visit the Registrars' desk during the weekend.

 

Regards

Mike

(TR2/3/3A Registrar)

[angelfj]

I've had a number of requests for pricing of these tags. I need to work out a few details, but I believe they will be somewhere in the £ 20 range plus post. This will get you a pair of tags in brass. I am thinking I will supply these w/o drilled holes and a bit longer (you can easily trim them) because of the variation between cars. I will also be offering embossed tags, in brass or aluminium, for your TR tool box or anything else you would like to identify. More on this later. Until I have my web page up and running, please contact me by private message or at my email address: trtags@comcast.net

 

Thank you, Frank

[j-eichert]

Mike,

 

TS27952 has a Z28 frame, Body shell no. 983038, no EB-no. mentioned by Bill P's extract from the production records.

Is there any other chance to get hold of the correct EB-number?

 

Re. the frame no.: The tag has an embossed "Z" and imprinted digits. To me it seems as if the tag was applied while carrying the "Z" only. Maybe the numbers where stamped into the tag after production - maybe by quality control?

Edited May 27, 2007 by j-eichert

[BrianC]

At the risk of offending some probably well-intentioned owners, can anyone explain the point of making up or guessing a body number, simply to be able to put what amounts to a false id plate on their car? Isn't this one step away from the ringing of car ids, also suggested in another recent thread on the TR7 bodyshell swaps? If the true body number really cannot be identified, then why not either omit the tag, or simply use a tag marked as 'EB' or 'EB unknown'? I would be a liitle upset if I thought someone was identifying their car with my one of my cars' numbers.

[TR 2100]

EB numbers are believed to be given by S-T to the trimmed body

 

The other 6/7 figure body numbers are believed to be issued by Mulliners (who built the bodies)

Hi Mike,

 

I always understood that the EB body number was given by Mulliners and would (normally) bear

some relationship to the TS commission number.

 

Also that the 6/7 figure number was a 'vehicle number', issued by S-T and consecutive across ALL

S-T vehicles.

 

AlanR

[stuart]

. I agree with Alec that there is no point in reproducing a false plate just to make it look correct, and anyway if you fit a plastic battery box the lower Mulliners plate is totally obscured anyway so it may as well not be there.

Start.

Edited May 29, 2007 by stuart

[Trevor S]

I must admit that I have to agree with the principle put forward by Brian & Alec that EB and body numbers should not be reproduced unless the owner is certain that the number quoted is correct. I, and no doubt all other owners would not be very happy to see another car displaying the genuine numbers from one of our cars, the other car owner having guessed at a number. Mike Ellis and others before him have gone to great time and trouble to accurately record what genuine information is available and to risk possibly providing your car with a possible part false identity makes a mockery of the process.

In addition this could possibly also have legal implications in the event of theft. If an owner reported his car as stolen and supplied all the original correct numbers and another car was identified showing one of the same numbers the person duplicating the number could have some serious explaining to do to the Police and may even have his/her car impounded until title issues had been resolved.

 

I think Frank has done a great job in being able to supply accurate reproductions, but his services must be used responsibly.

 

NB. Whilst this may be considered overkill, I personally think it unwise to quote full identity numbers for your cars on an open website such as this. Having dealt with motor insurance fraud both small scale and big time over many years as part of my job you never know who is recording this type of informatioin for possible future criminal use. I would suggest a PM instead.

 

Trevor.

[tr3timme]

On reflection I concede that I've been too indulgent of my anorak's side, re. the EB number, and that my zeal would, if carried through, be running against the spirit and ethos of the Register - so I'll not be making up a "guesstimate" figure! Nevertheless the correspondence seems to have identified that EB numbers are not necessarily higher than the 6/7 figure body number (as per Bill Piggott's original info.), so perhaps it's had some usefulness.

Frank, I am still interested in getting a couple of the tags, so will be in touch. Our computer also seems still to be unpredictable in getting PM Email to you; I will persevere!

Cheers, Tim.

[Lebro]

Hi Frank.

 

Are you still making these tags?

If so how should I contact you to have one made?

 

Body No. 842442 I don't know the other number, & not possible to find out !

 

Bob.

[foster461]

Hi Frank.

 

Are you still making these tags?

If so how should I contact you to have one made?

 

Body No. 842442 I don't know the other number, & not possible to find out !

 

Bob.

Bob, if you look at page 4 of your copy of TR Action you will see an offer from Bill Piggott who for GBP 10 will do a trace and fill in any missing numbers assuming you can give him enough data to find your car in the records.

 

Stan

[Lebro]

Hi Stan.

I have done this, & that is how I found out what the body shell number was. Unfortunately it is not possible to do the same for the "EB" number (see above trail)

The records for these numbers do not exist.

 

Thanks anyway

Bob.

[Don Elliott]

Bob - I have record of a TR3 smallmouth built on Nov. 11th, 1955 bearing Comm. No. TS 9146 L (for LH drive) having Body Shell No. 842172. This is quite close to your number 842442. It was delivered to USA and was Pearl White with Blue leather interior and white side curtains.

 

The next one I have on record is TS 11308 with body no. 844277, a beige TR3 built May 28th, 1956. If you do the interpolation between these two TR3s, I would guess that your TS NO. was about TS10000.

[foster461]

Hi Stan.

I have done this, & that is how I found out what the body shell number was. Unfortunately it is not possible to do the same for the "EB" number (see above trail)

The records for these numbers do not exist.

 

Thanks anyway

Bob.

Interesting Bob. I had the EB tag for my 1960 TR3 but not the body tag. Bill was able to provide the missing number and Frank made me a new tag.

 

Stan

[angelfj]

Hi Frank.

 

Are you still making these tags?

If so how should I contact you to have one made?

 

Body No. 842442 I don't know the other number, & not possible to find out !

 

Bob.

yes, I am still making them. Send me a pm with your requirements and email and I will respond.

Frank

[Lebro]

Hi Stan & Don.

My Commission No. is TS9551 O

So you were not far out, unfortunatly although I could guess the approximate EB number - I could never be sure - so best to not do it.

As it happens I have fitted one of the plastic inserts for the battery, & they cover over where one of the plates go anyway !

 

Hi Frank.

Once I work out how to send a "PM" - (I presume this means Personal message ?) then I will do so.

 

Cheers

Bob.