gear selection Gearbox

[Richardtr3a]

My gear box has a problem. When I select any  gear the lever feels as if there was something loose in the selectors.  I am now nervous about driving on the road. This is awkward because my son has  borrowed my VW and I am now stuck at home. My overdrive is still not selecting. Things could be worse !!

I am looking at a possible company near forum member LeBro for a repair. If there was a good specialist near Lewes in Sussex it would be more convenient.

I am very pleased with the solid state RB106 and the car starts very well, without hand priming. Can these two be connected ???

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks Richard & B

[Lebro]

Hardy Engineering have a good reputation, they did my overdrive 11 years ago & it's stiill going strong, also they have done a friends TR3 gearbox & overdrive  ditto. They are in Kingston road Leatherhead.

 

Bob

[RogerH]

+1 for Hardy engineering.   

They have worked on Healey, Jags MG TRiumph

They have done my OD and GB and all is well.

 

Roger

[John Morrison]

Hi Richard, 

what exactly is your gearbox doing?

I'd have  a think through on this, before you go whipping your gearbox out

and shipping it off for whats likely to be £2k ish worth of work. The only thing common to all the gears is the gearlever. When you say all gears does this include reverse, and is it the same with the engine off?

John.

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks for the replies. When I change gear there is a problem with the lever. As it is slid forward it feels as if there is some loose fitting on the end. It  does select the gears and it drives well. The annoying 'rattle" is noticeable in all gears and third mostly. I am not using it much while I wait for some home repairs ??? The gearbox was overhauled by Peter Cox, and the overdrive by Overdrive Repair Services.

Richard & B

[Lebro]

Missing "anti rattle" plunger & spring ?

Bob

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

16 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Missing "anti rattle" plunger & spring ?

Bob

+1

My thought.

The gear stick has been ‘over lifted’ , to get it in reverse and the anti rattle plunger has popped out.

[John Morrison]

36 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Missing "anti rattle" plunger & spring ?

Bob

Would be my thoughts also.

point is Richard that’s a simple enough check/repair with only needing to remove the 

transmission tunnel.

Could you do that? And if not is there someone in your local group would lend a hand.

John

[TimG]

I had a problem with my 3A, I could not get reverse. It turned out to be badly worn items 42 cap & 52 retainer cup page 86 Rimmer catalogue. Used items sourced & all well.

[ianc]

If it is the anti-rattle device, which seems very likely from the description, the transmission tunnel can stay in place as only the rubber gaiter and the gear lever need be removed.

Be careful not to lose the anti-rattle device - it is very small ( Moss has repalcements) and can drop out

To ensure it doesn't fall out of its little hole, one needs to hold it into its hole when installing the lever.

Ian Cornish

[Richardtr3a]

Very helpful advice. I am out in the garage this afternoon. Thanks

Richard & B

[stuart]

2 hours ago, ianc said:

To ensure it doesn't fall out of its little hole, one needs to hold it into its hole when installing the lever.

Ian Cornish

Cable tie to hold it in as much as you can then place the gear lever in position and give it a sharp smack down into place, this displaces the cable tie which can then be snipped out with cutters.

Stuart

[Richardtr3a]

I have managed to remove the gear box tunnel after the whole afternoon undoing the bolts. They are hard to reach even with a special small socket and handle. All the fixings are saved in two small plastic  bags. The anti rattle spring looked to be in good condition but I will strip it down tomorrow The dip switch was difficult to release  and I remember it being an awkward fix last time. 

So I drove for about one mile , down a country lane, with no cover. There are two faults

1. The rattle noise is high pitched and related to the engine revs. Tomorrow I will disconnect the rev counter and see if that is wrong. The gear change was easy and the clutch could use a very small adjustment.
2. The overdrive will not work. There is a loud click when the switch is flicked on ,  but the solenoid is not moving. I will try and find a wiring diagram so that I can give is some help . It is not easy to check the solenoid  but there was no movement either side of the gearbox.

Tomorrow will give me more answers. It took the whole afternoon to release the tunnel and take it to the back of the garage.

Thanks for the advice and any further help

Richard & B

[Richardtr3a]

I have made some progress but I still need help.

1. The rattle noise is something moving according to the engine revs.  It is not the rev. counter.  Is there a part in the gearbox/overdirve which could be making a minor noise? or is this just normal. Maybe I should stop worrying ??
2. The gearbox has oil up to the top mark on the dipstick. The o/d  relay has power from the ignition but all other contacts do not show any life. The two switches on the gearbox are also not showing any life. When you select the overdrive there is a click which does seem to be coming from this relay. So it looks like a new relay and  I need some advice on a proper quality supplier hopefully made in UK.

Please let me know 

Richard & B

[RobH]

The rattle could just be that the gearstick anti-rattle plunger isn't there Richard, as others have said.  The name is the clue. 

If the OD relay clicks only when the gearbox is in gear, the two interlock switches are working as they should.  

This is a direct UK-source replacement relay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164379224543

At that price it's worth making sure you really need one !

[John Morrison]

Hi Richard, as you say - progress - well done.

Now you don't want to put it all back without having solved your issues.

re the overdrive relay, my experience with a pattern part original was that it lasted about 6 weeks, so I then bought a modern, black cube, 30amp, it sits well out of site  on the TR4 anyway, couple or quid or so, its into its second decade. We can help with fitting and how the numbers correspond to the original relay markings.

That would be my starting point on the overdrive issue, and remember 80% of O/D problems are electrical!

Now as regards the G/B Rattle. I would remove the propshaft, remember to mark the flanges, punch mark, chisel mark or blob of paint, so they go back the same way, 

Now you can start the car, run up through the gears, and try to find this annoying rattle, whilst stationary in the garage, with the doors open!

BE VERY CAREFUL, NOT TO GO ANYWHERE NEAR, OR PUT YOUR HAND ANYWHERE NEAR THE REVOLVING FLANGE. But you could for example get to the rattle point on the throttle, and gently push down on the top of the gear lever, does it go away or change note? Also does the lever feel strange or floppy? There is a large conical spring under the retaining cap of the gearlever. maybe its broken? Also does the clutch feel the same? or just depressing the clutch make any difference to the rattle or vibration?

 

Finally, for now, when you swop relays, you can of course also test the O/D Operation, with the car like this before you reconnect the prop, you can probably feel the O/D Kick in when its working, but just to be sure, remember not to watch the rev counter when engaging, but rather the speedo, there is no load on the drive train, so the revs won't drop, but the speedo will noticeably rise. If the O/D comes in - great if not, there are other adjustments and things we can do, just get back to us.

 

John.

[Lebro]

Or,    Simply raise the rear of the car on axle stands. less work than disconnecting the propshaft ?

Bob

[ianc]

The overdrive relay can click, but fail to supply power to the solenoid.

In 30 years, I have had to replace my overdrive relay on four occasions, the most recent being just a fortnight ago.  Each time, it has been because the contact inside the relay (a Lucas 6RA type) although moving was no longer making contact - hence no power to the solenoid.

When at autojumbles, I keep an eye open for old (original) Lucas 6RA relays - they seem to last rather longer.

Ian Cornish

[Ralph Whitaker]

I had a brand new relay from one of the main suppliers, which looked original from the outside and was quite expensive. When it failed after 12 months I took it apart and found that inside was a tiny modern cube relay about the size of a sugar lump. The outer tin container was just to make it look like an original. I went to my local auto store and bought an accessory relay for about £5 and fitted that. Has been working fine for the last 3 years, and my overdrive gets used a lot as a 5th gear as I have the low 4.1 back axle fitted.

Ralph

[Richardtr3a]

Thanks for the advice.  The relay  does click but there is no current to the solenoid. Can anyone give me a link to a real relay with a life. I need some instructions on fitting as well.  Thanks  Ralph what relay am I looking for ?  Shall I contact our main suppliers ?? I di very well with a solid state regulator which has stopped my regulator problems for years.

There must be an electrical company , in East Sussex, who supply quality parts. I have a special mechanical friend coming this week to look at it all and would like the relay to be here when he comes later in the week.

A sunny day here so I shall be out road testing the rattle noise with the cover off  the gear box ???

Thanks Richard & B

 

 

[RobH]

29 minutes ago, Richardtr3a said:

Thanks  Ralph what relay am I looking for ? 

A Durite 0-727-12 is the modern type

or a part number 140201 here:

https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p/12-volt-relay-make-and-break

If you go to a local shop ask for a "4-terminal 30amp make-break relay"

 

For modern relays the connection terminals are numbered rather than letters and the equivalents to the original are:

C1=30. (brown/white wire),   C2=87 (yellow/purple),   W1=86 (white),   W2= 85 (yellow/green)

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22 by RobH

[Ralph Whitaker]

Rob beat me to it, I had just been looking on ebay and came up with the same Durite relay.  Or go with Rob`s other suggestion if you want the original look.

Ralph

[Richardtr3a]

I am very impressed by these two answers. I have spent a long time explaining to suppliers what an Overdrive is and that a relay is required.

Then I checked out the Forum and had a direct link. Is it better to buy a Durite or just the other one here on the forum  ? Durite may be better quality.

The forum is the best place for advice. I have help from a friend tomorrow and will make sure that it is the relay which has given up.

Thanks to Rob and Ralph 

[RobH]

23 minutes ago, Richardtr3a said:

Is it better to buy a Durite or just the other one here on the forum  ? Durite may be better quality.

I doubt there is anything much between the two Richard.  Both Durite and Ripca/Ripault are reputable.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25 by RobH

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

What does your existing relay look like Richard.  

With Lucar or screwed eyelet terminations?

These are views of spare new relays that are in my drawer.