Richardtr3a Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 I have a banjo with one end snapped off. So I need a new fuel pipe made up from two new banjo fittings correct size washers and gaskets, one short length of pipe from the rear SU to the front SU one length of pipe from the front SU to the thermostat housing with fittings to connect to the existing pipe from the fuel pump I did this many years ago and I can not find the company who made the pipe for me. It is probably time for a new E proof pipe anyway. I am looking for a fully made fuel pipe and some washers of the correct size for the banjo. I have some sealer so I am hoping for a straight forward simple repair. Is there any advice from the forum please. Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) Bear in mind Burlen charge £30 for a banjo on its own. https://sucarb.co.uk/float-chambers-spares/banjos/double-brass-90-degree-banjo-takes-5-16in-hose.html I put them in the parts sales lists all those years ago. items 50/51/52 203120+203121+ an olive. https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/triumph/tr2-4a/fuel-system-induction-controls/tanks-pumps-pipes/fuel-tank-pipes-pump-tr2-3a-1953-62.html Edited March 4 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 i have just had the same made up . i gave them my old and received back what i think is a good replacement. Not sure if there were any washers given.Don't think so. It is rather bright compared to the original one . I will photo in a couple of days. Moss 203120 type Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dic Doretti Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 My TR2 has its original fuel pipe which is a solid pipe running from the fuel pump to the front carb via a clip on the thermostat housing then onto the rear carb so no rubber sections to deteriorate or unions to leak. I wonder why they changed? Cheers Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, Dic Doretti said: My TR2 has its original fuel pipe which is a solid pipe running from the fuel pump to the front carb via a clip on the thermostat housing then onto the rear carb so no rubber sections to deteriorate or unions to leak. I wonder why they changed? Cheers Richard Due to the pipe fracturing at one or other banjo due to engine vibration. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dic Doretti Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Surely if the carbs, thermostat housing and fuel pump are all bolted on to the engine then they are all vibrating together. The pipe has lasted 70 years unlike rubbers pipes or rubber pipes hiding behind braided stainless steel mesh. Cheers Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, Dic Doretti said: Surely if the carbs, thermostat housing and fuel pump are all bolted on to the engine then they are all vibrating together. They are all vibrating, but not together. Each component will have its own resonant frequency which will become 'excited' at various parts of the rev range. Heavier and 'floppier' bits like pipes will resonate at lower frequencies and stiffer more solid bits at higher frequencies. Above a couple of hundred hertz the world behaves like jelly, no matter how solid it may appear to be. Whether damage will occur depends on the level and duration of excitation and the fatigue limits of the materials. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Ive had to change a few of those solid pipes that have fractured so just going by experience, the factory obviously noted this problem too hence the change to flexible braided first of all then with later carbs the change to rubber and steel Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 5 Author Report Share Posted March 5 I have been out in the garage and found some SU parts in a box. I have two banjo and they have a short connection which would internally take 5/16 pipe. I also have a length of modern flexible hose to make the connections. But the new 'rubber' hose is a very tight fit. I held it in boiling water for a few minutes and just managed to slip it over the brass banjo input which is only just under 1/4 " long and I do not think that a jubilee clip would work. Is there any other clip that would be petrol proof and not slide off the pipe when tightened ? The moss parts are £130 so I am trying to use the parts supply in my own plastic box in the garage, plus three new clips ?? Thanks Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
david ferry Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Have a look here Think Automotive Don't mess about with this, ensure the job is done properly and safely - it's petrol and will go up in flames, possibly taking your car with it. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Richardtr3a said: I have been out in the garage and found some SU parts in a box. I have two banjo and they have a short connection which would internally take 5/16 pipe. I also have a length of modern flexible hose to make the connections. But the new 'rubber' hose is a very tight fit. I held it in boiling water for a few minutes and just managed to slip it over the brass banjo input which is only just under 1/4 " long and I do not think that a jubilee clip would work. Is there any other clip that would be petrol proof and not slide off the pipe when tightened ? The moss parts are £130 so I am trying to use the parts supply in my own plastic box in the garage, plus three new clips ?? Thanks Richard & B As long as the pipe is the correct spec for modern petrol (containing ethanol) you will be ok using the correct type of clip: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304539052502 they come in a variety of sizes, depending on the outside diameter of the rubber pipe. Given that on later cars they did away with the banjo's, & simply pushed rubber hose over a plain metal tube (no end flare) & held on with spring clips, your solution should be fine as long as you can seal the banjo's to the carbs ok. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Found this banjo fuel hose kit for a TR2 on eBay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333063571302?itmmeta=01HR7B5833W6EGZ83SSWQ9Z5X6&hash=item4d8c22c766:g:2vQAAOSwHQxcXoQF&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwF519kpUTBAzFgc%2FSrsa6v9Q3tW7tREynKV%2BkodwPLzJ%2FUusnB127Iyere52pLJbihGdlD7yjHqS1GYGwDNWCIcoJzcZdTUbimYSolNZm4RN5v4UQeC68bvanKYxWUGxxiKThZlxdDM3e--fHjE6KOsb%2FlR08aglCAXk%2B3IWl18TqQftf78XbXDmrG1CP3NNqA21G9jSDglYq2WfntNe3nyT8nciFdPYVOkI%2F4rGjA%2BHhjXoThbk0lie%2Ba6kb4q99A%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9KBlevBYw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Trouble with braided hose is you can't see when the rubber starts to crack. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, Lebro said: Trouble with braided hose is you can't see when the rubber starts to crack. Bob Plus, when I strand of wire breaks one end sticks in your hand the other through the pipe. Test we used was wipe metal sheathed pipes with a piece of mutton cloth. If it got caught on a stray wire the hose was scrap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 4 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Plus, when I strand of wire breaks one end sticks in your hand the other through the pipe. Test we used was wipe metal sheathed pipes with a piece of mutton cloth. If it got caught on a stray wire the hose was scrap. My test too. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 The solid metal pipe may well be attached to the block and subj cited to the same vibrations/ bumps/jolts as the block but won’t tolerate them as well before metal fatigue cracks it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 After some research in my old paper files I find that I have been in this same position some years ago. My file show that I sent the wrong banjo x2 to a company in the Midlands. They returned it with new braided hoses . It was returned to them immediately because it was leaking. A second charge was made and the banjo connections were cramped tighter. I do not want to be in the same position again so I have ordered the complete unit from Moss which will have all new correct parts assembled and ready to bolt on to the SU . I am waiting for delivery and hope that the fibre washers are included. I am keen to use a sealer and what would work with the SU, banjo and fibre washers and Petrol Thanks Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Richardtr3a said: After some research in my old paper files I find that I have been in this same position some years ago. My file show that I sent the wrong banjo x2 to a company in the Midlands. They returned it with new braided hoses . It was returned to them immediately because it was leaking. A second charge was made and the banjo connections were cramped tighter. I do not want to be in the same position again so I have ordered the complete unit from Moss which will have all new correct parts assembled and ready to bolt on to the SU . I am waiting for delivery and hope that the fibre washers are included. I am keen to use a sealer and what would work with the SU, banjo and fibre washers and Petrol Thanks Richard & B You shouldnt need any sealer as thats why you have fibre washers. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ewan2 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Glad you said that Stuart I was thinking I have been wrong all these years. I use up to date ethanol resistant rubber pipework for the SU supply plumbing. I have updated the pipes at regular intervals over the years. Ewan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 I now have the connections and the pipework from Moss, out in the garage. I will assemble soon and will use fibre washers. I would be more confident if I used my Heldite sealer as well. Now I am older I read the instructions first and Heldite is not ethanol proof but good for all other liquids Is there a sealant that is correct for petrol pipes and fibre washers ? Please let me know Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 17 hours ago, Richardtr3a said: I now have the connections and the pipework from Moss, out in the garage. I will assemble soon and will use fibre washers. I would be more confident if I used my Heldite sealer as well. Now I am older I read the instructions first and Heldite is not ethanol proof but good for all other liquids Is there a sealant that is correct for petrol pipes and fibre washers ? Please let me know Richard & B You dont need sealer with fibre washers, thats the whole point of having them. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 14 Author Report Share Posted March 14 It is all looking hopeful now. But the connection from the flexible to the pipe from the pump is made with a special fitting which comes with an "olive" I have asked Moss for some help from their technical department. The new connector is mild steel and the new flexible fit easily. The other side of the connector is to be connected to my existing solid pipe which will be sealed by an olive. The connector will not allow my pipe to fit inside and the new "olive" will be on the extreme end of the pipe. The new "olive" is not like any other that I have ever seen and is a smooth round small tube that will fit over my pipe and will be compressed when fitted on the last 1/4" end of my pipe. I am reluctant to drill out the fitting to allow my pipe to enter and then I could use the existing olive or use the new olive in a better position on the feed pipe. Moss technical are investigating. Has anyone else any answers to pipe connections ??? Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted March 15 Author Report Share Posted March 15 Moss technical have checked the connector and are sending me a modified unit. They are being very helpful. I may be back on the road next week. Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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