Starting issues

[Nick Seber]

Started the car this morning as it’s not been used for a month. Took a bit of time which is usual when she’s been standing for a while but ran fine for a few minutes. Started to stumble a bit, then coughed and backfired and stopped. Now tries to start, catches a bit then stops.

 

fuel filter bowl full and clean, plugs were sooty, cleaned and no difference.

 

any thoughts on things to check in order of simplicity?

[RogerH]

Hi Nick,

try removing the old fuel from the fuel bowls and put in new - if it runs and stops again change the fuel in the tank.

As it ran for a while I would discount damp electrics - but then again  

Roger

 

[Nick Seber]

Thank Roger, I’ll give it a go. Fuel was fresh a month or so ago but tank was a quarter full when topped up so maybe it’s separated a bit.

[monty]

I do think that this modern fuel (E5 higher octane) does go a little stale after being left for maybe a month or so. My car does take a bit more effort during these months where usage is a bit low.

[Michel Higuet]

1 hour ago, Nick Seber said:

Thank Roger, I’ll give it a go. Fuel was fresh a month or so ago but tank was a quarter full when topped up so maybe it’s separated a bit.

I had a lot of little problems but the 3 years old fuel was never a problem.

 

[Ralph Whitaker]

16 hours ago, Michel Higuet said:

I had a lot of little problems but the 3 years old fuel was never a problem.

 

+1.  Not much of a comparison, but I have a BSA Bantam which was last filled up with fuel in 2019. I have not ridden it since, but have started it regularly, including last weekend when it started second kick. My 2 Triumphs (TR and Dolomite) are put to bed now for the winter, but will be started every couple of weeks and fully warmed up, just like last year and the years before, and as before I expect no problems right through to spring starting on fuel put in the tank in October. I don`t think fuel going stale is as big a problem as some folk think. I do use an ethanol stabiliser additive, so maybe that makes a difference.

Ralph

[Nick Seber]

1 hour ago, Ralph Whitaker said:

+1.  Not much of a comparison, but I have a BSA Bantam which was last filled up with fuel in 2019. I have not ridden it since, but have started it regularly, including last weekend when it started second kick. My 2 Triumphs (TR and Dolomite) are put to bed now for the winter, but will be started every couple of weeks and fully warmed up, just like last year and the years before, and as before I expect no problems right through to spring starting on fuel put in the tank in October. I don`t think fuel going stale is as big a problem as some folk think. I do use an ethanol stabiliser additive, so maybe that makes a difference.

Ralph

Thanks Ralph, I’m also using an ethanol additive and had no problems with it laid up last winter. I will try the fuel but wondered if any further ideas on the problem?

[Deggers]

After a lengthy lay up, my 3A would pop and miss-fire its way to the nearest petrol station, where a fresh tank of fuel would cure the problem.

If the car is going to be off the road for a while, I now add Sta-Bil before parking, which thus far has worked very well.

 

     

 

Deggers

[Richardtr3a]

I had problems with starting my TR3A after it was started first in the morning. I always had to park on a hill so that I could roll forwards and try starting by taking my foot off the clutch pedal with the car in gear and the ignition on. This worked for months until I changed the condenser that was supplied by a well known supplier of TR parts. But it was made in the far east and they did not use enough material inside the unit. I bought a racing one for £35.00 and the starting problem has gone away many years ago. 

There are other problems with my TR but I like mending it.

Richard & B

[arallsopp]

My 4A will stumble a bit when it warms up on stale fuel until its been run a while. If I leave it idling on the drive as it comes up to temperature, it'll die on me. If I drive it (admittedly six mins down the road to the fuel station) it'll sit happily at 2krpm and when freshly fuelled will run happy again.

 

[Michel Higuet]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:04 PM, Nick Seber said:

Started the car this morning as it’s not been used for a month. Took a bit of time which is usual when she’s been standing for a while but ran fine for a few minutes. Started to stumble a bit, then coughed and backfired and stopped. Now tries to start, catches a bit then stops.

 

fuel filter bowl full and clean, plugs were sooty, cleaned and no difference.

 

any thoughts on things to check in order of simplicity?

Personally in case not having a clue

Check the color of the 4 sparkplug

Check the spark on one sparkplug resting on the motor

If not electronic ignition of course looking at the points, check condenser

Check connection to the ignition coil and control the 3 Ohm  ( but coil could be erratic when running! )

Connect a vacuum tester

Not start to quibble at the carbs without reason

Check the jets position come back full after using the choke

Maybe open the float bowl to compare the level inside

Could made a check with a compression gauge

The list is very long an always the same question "Electric of Fuel?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith Wigglesworth]

Put Sta-Bill in my 3A last winter and after 7 months it started first time. 
Keith

[Nick Seber]

Turns out it was deteriorating fuel causing the problem. Electrical system checked and all good.

managed after a fair bit of effort to get her ticking over, any attempt to rev the engine would cause it to cough and splutter so left it to tick over to run the fuel through the system and after 5 minutes, all was good. The fuel was 6-8 weeks old, E5 with valvemaster added. I have emailed Sta-bil to see if their product can be safely mixed with valvemaster.

will be starting once a week through the winter to hopefully ensure the same doesn’t happen again.

[Z320]

Hi,

did you drive the car or did the engine only run at the garage?

Ciao, Marco 

[Nick Seber]

42 minutes ago, Z320 said:

Hi,

did you drive the car or did the engine only run at the garage?

Ciao, Marco 

Hi Marco,

only ran the car in the garage as weather is awful.

[Z320]

Hi Nick,

I own 4 motorbikes which I drive "regular" - every 2 years 10 km to the TÜV and back.

I can't count the years the standard petrol in their tank - and have no problem at all to start them.

Also not with my TR after 3-4 months winter brake.

I guess your problem is not the age of the pertol, it could be the petrol supply:

an additional filter or the pertol line blocked, enough petrol to idle, but not to drive.

Ignore what I guess, you will see.

Ciao, Marco

[Lo100469]

Nick, as Marco i don't believe fuel turns bad in weeks. I also have a couple of bikes with fuel of over a year and they start no problem.  Keeping the fuel tank full is always a good idea to avoid condensation.  I don't know this valve master products, what is it doing?

You could have a fuel delivery issue that fixes itself as the pump works and mixes the fuel, if you have a plastic fuel filter try to remove it or change it. have you tested the fuel pump?

all the best,

Laurent

[Lebro]

Ditto, 6 to 8 weeks without using the car is nothing, petrol should last much longer than that before being a problem.

Perhaps it was the additives which caused the problem.

I have never used any, and have had no problems at all from not doing so.

Bob

Edited November 14, 2023 by Lebro

[Nick Seber]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

Ditto, 6 to 8 weeks without using the car is nothing, petrol should last much longer than that before being a problem.

Perhaps it was the additives which caused the problem.

I have never used any, and have had no problems at all from not doing so.

Bob

The only additive is Castrol Valvemaster as the head hasn’t been converted to unleaded. My local garage owner has 20+ classic cars and he said the new E5 and E10 breaks down really fast and leaves brown deposits in carbs etc. the petrol companies state a month shelf life and tanks should be as full as possible to reduce evaporation.

 

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/country-sites/en_au/australia/home/products-services/fuels/opal-factsheet-storagehandling.pdf

[Lebro]

Ran my TR3 for 8 years (approx 16000 miles) on unleaded, with no additives, on strip down there was no sign of recession on the valves.

Not a problem unless you are racing the car.

I agree with keeping the tank full especialy if laying up for any time.  One month shelf life sounds ridiculous.

Bob

[Nick Seber]

4 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Ran my TR3 for 8 years (approx 16000 miles) on unleaded, with no additives, on strip down there was no sign of recession on the valves.

Not a problem unless you are racing the car.

I agree with keeping the tank full especialy if laying up for any time.  One month shelf life sounds ridiculous.

Bob

I agree Bob, kept fuel in lawnmowers, dirt bikes and the 4a over winter before with little issue. Maybe the quality at the pumps is getting progressively worse?

the garage owner with 20+ vehicles goes a step further and keeps Avgas in the tanks over winter