JK Bonnett Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 If anyone is running a programmable 123 distributor in a modified engine I'd be pleased to hear of your experiences, what you think and whether there are any worthwhile gains in performance. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 I’ll be watching this one too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Further reading The wind up window brigade discussed this a while back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 I have a 123Ignition tune+ in use on my 4, not wildly modified (TRGB High Torque Yellow cam and 87mm liners) but I am very happy with my choice. I’d expect the benefits of being able to update the advance curve in seconds would be even more valuable as more incremental mods are introduced. I was told that the app isn’t great on an Android device, however I have found it to be good on my iPhone and iPad. ……. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted February 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Thank you for the link Peter. So, largely, very satisfied seems to be the verdict and encouraging for someone (me for instance ) thinking about taking that route. My understanding is that the advance curve of the standard distributor will suit a standard engine but once the engine is modified I can imagine that it will be less than ideal which is where a programmable unit should come into its own. My plan would be to do a power run on the rolling road with the standard distributor fitted, torque and power figures noted, fit the 123, programme it, and compare the results. I was hoping that someone might have already done this but if not, I shall be happy to share the results whether they be good or bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, JK Bonnett said: My plan would be to do a power run on the rolling road with the standard distributor fitted, torque and power figures noted, fit the 123, programme it, and compare the results. I was hoping that someone might have already done this but if not, I shall be happy to share the results whether they be good or bad. A quick forum search will pull up some example curves that have been used (I know I provided one on an earlier thread). Swapping straight to the 123 and comparing power probably isn’t overly helpful - the true measure will be to compare the power after fully tuning it on the rolling road and tweaking the initially-applied advance curve of the 123 to truly match your set-up. have fun ……… Andy Edited February 20, 2023 by AndyR100 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, AndyR100 said: A quick forum search will pull up some example curves that have been used (I know I pasted one on an earlier thread). Swapping straight to the 123 and comparing power probably isn’t overly helpful - the true measure will be to compare the power after fully tuning it on the rolling road and tweaking the initially-applied advance curve of the 123 to truly match your set-up. have fun ……… Andy +1 the required distributor advance curve is not necessarily linear, the standard curve is pretty close to being linear. This might be of interest:- https://www.vessey-classic-car-services.co.uk/distributor-setup-and-curve-developmeny.htm#.Y_PHPxqnwgo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted February 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, AndyR100 said: A quick forum search will pull up some example curves that have been used (I know I provided one on an earlier thread). Swapping straight to the 123 and comparing power probably isn’t overly helpful - the true measure will be to compare the power after fully tuning it on the rolling road and tweaking the initially-applied advance curve of the 123 to truly match your set-up. have fun ……… Andy I think that was what I was trying to say but perhaps poorly expressed. The 123 would be programmed during the same rolling road session. Sorry for any confusion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 The rolling road i use recommend the 123 bluetooth . not the 123 programable one I have not gone this route yet but they are knowledgeable . Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 You'll see improvements in drivability - that's one aspect of performance.... ultimate power maybe less different than other dizzys, but the ability to program an advance curve of any shape, something centrifugal dizzys can never do, allows for special tweaks to maintain a good idle and progression. Also the 123ignitions have Spark Balancing "Its microprocessor constantly monitors the amount of energy contributed by each individual cylinder. Assume for example that the compression of one cylinder differs from the others. The motion of the flywheel would be less smooth, and so is the motion of the camshaft. This distributor detects this, and adjusts the timing of each cylinder individually. This results in a much quieter engine, more power and less wear" I am using one on an original BMW 2002 turbo, 6.9:1 compression, big truck turbo and mechanical fuel injection - the 123 really helps optimise this setup - the original bosch/bmw dizzy simply couldnt be optimal in both low speed and high boost condition. I am really pleased with mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted February 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 Many thanks to everyone for the positive feedback and on the strength of that, I've ordered a Bluetooth programmable model and Pertronix Flamethrower coil. I have a rolling road appointment this week to set up the H6s and another in March to programme the 123. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Icarus60 Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 I am a bit late on this one. I have used the 123 distributors since they came onto the market. Whilst the 123 Tune plus is good it does not have the functionality of the earlier and still available 123 Tune. Yes you can change the curve from your phone using Bluetooth connectivity and you can immobilise the car using your phone on the 123 Tune Plus but they are are a step backwards in some respects. The 123 Tune ( No plus!) has to be connected to a laptop via a USB cable. Once connected you can change and edit the advance curve as required. The important bit though is that 123 Tune (No plus) has the capability to store and use two different curves, and two individual rev limiters, which are selectable via a switch in the cabin! Use the switch to try another 5 degrees advance or cope with some poor fuel etc etc etc I have a 123 Tune (No plus) on a reasonably tuned 89mm engine and the two curve functionality has been a real benefit in both setting it up and then day to day driving when, say, decent fuel is not available. Happy to assist with any further info Regards Rog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steves_TR6 Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 Rog makes a great point i have a Tune+ and am happy with it but the ability to switch between 2 maps would be very useful steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted February 21, 2023 Report Share Posted February 21, 2023 It is a fair point that the Tune+ has just the one curve - in practice I find that I only make minor mods, and when I do it takes about 30 seconds using app, I guess it depends on how you intend to use it. I’m sure you’ll be happy with your choice whichever path you take. ………. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted March 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just to complete the story, the 123 tune + was fitted and set up this afternoon by Mark Shilliber at SRD Launceston and the result is quite impressive. The previous rolling road elistited an amazing 15% increase in power by setting up the SUs and ignition timing. Advance was set at maximum power so I didn't expect any further increase from the 123 but nevertheless we came away with 3bhp more which was an unexpected bonus. The real benefit is in the smoothness of the tickover and indeed, throughout the rev range which was immediately obvious on the journey home. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilliman Posted March 9, 2023 Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 Well done John, that's a good result. I also use Mark for setting up my engines with bluetooth 123 tune + & Weber 45's. I'll be visiting him again very soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted March 9, 2023 Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 Delighted that you have had a good outcome - great job! ……. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 9, 2023 Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 That southwest corner of England is a hotbed of very sporty TR’s great result John now make sure you guys set those Rev limiters. Don’t want you getting carried away. !! I’d suggest about 4500 just to be on the safe side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilliman Posted March 9, 2023 Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Hamish said: I’d suggest about 4500 just to be on the safe side That's when I reverse out the garage Hamish...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted March 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, Hamish said: That southwest corner of England is a hotbed of very sporty TR’s great result John now make sure you guys set those Rev limiters. Don’t want you getting carried away. !! I’d suggest about 4500 just to be on the safe side Maximum power comes up at four eight Hamish so the limiter has been set to just above five. 20 minutes ago, Chilliman said: Well done John, that's a good result. I also use Mark for setting up my engines with bluetooth 123 tune + & Weber 45's. I'll be visiting him again very soon. Thank you John. I've known Mark for years and he's built some good engines for me. It's always a pleasure to go over there and be plied with tea and biscuits while I'm waiting. Mark and his wife are very hospitable. I'm hoping we might be able to meet up very soon because Andrew has invited me over and I believe you live very close to him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted March 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, AndyR100 said: Delighted that you have had a good outcome - great job! ……. Andy Thank you Andy. I got soaked on the 120 mile round trip but I was still grinning when I got home. The car is an absolute joy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted March 9, 2023 Report Share Posted March 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, Chilliman said: That's when I reverse out the garage Hamish...... Ha ha I can believe that. 2 minutes ago, JK Bonnett said: Maximum power comes up at four eight Hamish so the limiter has been set to just above five. Sounds sensible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chilliman Posted March 10, 2023 Report Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 7:54 PM, JK Bonnett said: I'm hoping we might be able to meet up very soon because Andrew has invited me over and I believe you live very close to him. Yes indeed, you are more than welcome here any time. Currently working on a TR3 bonnet for another member & a short bulge bonnet for my other TR4 - there's always something going on! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK Bonnett Posted March 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2023 15 hours ago, Chilliman said: Yes indeed, you are more than welcome here any time. Currently working on a TR3 bonnet for another member & a short bulge bonnet for my other TR4 - there's always something going on! That's very kind of you John, thank you. I'd prefer a dry run over and back so I'll keep an eye on the forecast and hopefully we'll be able to arrange a convenient date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted March 11, 2023 Report Share Posted March 11, 2023 Perhaps we should post the advance curves people have adopted and the state of tune their car is in? Then we might identify a good starting point for different states of tune? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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