BaulyCars Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 Has anyone tried the Wilwood/Goodparts brake master cylinder set-up, maybe that's a good upgrade in terms of pedal force/feel? https://www.goodparts.com/product/dual-master-cylinder-kit-tr250-tr6-5-8-bore/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 Logic tells me that without a booster, you need to press harder on the pedal to achieve the same force. With a lever, the required pedal force can be reduced, but then less oil (volume) will be pumped. But maybe there are other aspects? Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 42 minutes ago, BaulyCars said: Has anyone tried the Wilwood/Goodparts brake master cylinder set-up, maybe that's a good upgrade in terms of pedal force/feel? https://www.goodparts.com/product/dual-master-cylinder-kit-tr250-tr6-5-8-bore/ You've lost the booster. Roadworthy and insurance issues come to mind, and quite frankly I've learned to adapt to my old TR's braking system , warts and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Read Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 On 12/15/2022 at 5:11 PM, Motorsport Mickey said: You can lock up the tyres with the standard systems, if you can't then there's something wrong with your set up. If you can convince me that the standard system which is specified as mandatory when racing (in class, and is often used without a servo even) is not satisfactory to stop your car when driving on public roads, then you are driving too fast....Or am I confused. Sure fit what you want, but once you can lock the tyres (and you can with standard setup) then it means you need stickier/wider tyres. Mick Richards Friction is independent of surface area, whilst different tyres may help wider tyres will not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaulyCars Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 I've not tried Wilwoods on a TR6, but I've swapped to Wilwoods before on another car and found quite a significant difference with braking power/feel at the pedal compared to before, so more braking power at say 50% of the pedal stroke than with the original caliper. Both will lock the wheels up, but more braking performance up to point of lock up should mean more braking performance (or at least give a bit more confidence). There's probably a graph in that somewhere... Although Richard71 suggests you don't feel that, so maybe a caliper swap on a TR6 doesn't really change day-to-day driving. Wilwoods (or even better AP Racing Calipers) do look pretty cool at a standstill though... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaulyCars Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 17 hours ago, Z320 said: Sorry, I don’t want to have elastic material between pads and pistons. Try a very generous coating of copper grease on the back of the pads (with or without shims). Usually works if only not for very long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 22 minutes ago, BaulyCars said: but more braking performance up to point of lock up should mean more braking performance "Ye cannae change the laws of physics." Irrespective of the caliper set-up, maximum braking occurs just before the wheels lock up. If you can do that with the standard brakes then a 'bling' set isn't going to improve anything. In fact they can even make things worse. We have had similar discussions in the past on here and one finding was that some aftermarket 4-pot calipers can actually have a smaller piston area than the standard set-up, so the braking effort is less for a given level of pedal push. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BaulyCars Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 I guess aftermarket calipers/rotors are then really only better at managing fade/heat (which wouldn't solve the original white van man event). Expensive upgrade for that one time when you might get a bit of fade... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 To say it with other words: with a smaller caliper piston surface and the same force on the pedal the braking result is less. Most not TR calipers have a smaller piston surface and are, sorry IMO and directly said, just bling-bling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 With a properly set up original brake system including calipers and a set of Hawk pads then you have the best for the car in terms of balance and controllability. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiTR6 Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 I have Mintex pads on the front in the standard calipers, slightly larger Morgan slave cylinders on the back, braided hoses, a 12V supplementary vacuum pump for the booster and DOT 5.0 silicon fluid. The brakes are fantastic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted July 8, 2023 Report Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, KiwiTR6 said: I have Mintex pads on the front in the standard calipers, slightly larger Morgan slave cylinders on the back, braided hoses, a 12V supplementary vacuum pump for the booster and DOT 5.0 silicon fluid. The brakes are fantastic! Interesting that you have fitted a vacuum pump for the booster...Like to know why [not enough from the engine alone] and what pump. Edited July 8, 2023 by Malbaby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CK's TR6 Posted July 9, 2023 Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 22 hours ago, BaulyCars said: Has anyone tried the Wilwood/Goodparts brake master cylinder set-up, maybe that's a good upgrade in terms of pedal force/feel? https://www.goodparts.com/product/dual-master-cylinder-kit-tr250-tr6-5-8-bore/ yes. feel is linear. force is nearly the same. is has three positions for the force/travel. adjustable bias front to rear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KiwiTR6 Posted July 9, 2023 Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Malbaby said: Interesting that you have fitted a vacuum pump for the booster...Like to know why [not enough from the engine alone] and what pump. Yes, it was fitted to give a constant vacuum for the brakes. The pump is from an Audi of some type (sorry, can't remember which model) and is controlled by an adjustable vacuum switch that is normally used to control older auto transmissions. It's currently set to 13" and can be increased by quite a bit more but this seems to work fine. It's an alternative to the more common Volvo servo upgrade without having to do any panel modification. I'm not sure that it was any easier but I'm happy that I made the effort. I'm happy to post some photo's if you're interested. Edited July 9, 2023 by KiwiTR6 added info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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