Rebuilt engine won’t start

[timpress]

Hello everyone, I recently fully rebuilt my engine but for some reason it will not start. I have spark, have double checked my distributor pedestal and metering unit timing (see pic for gear location) and am on firing strike at no1 TDC with distributor rotor arm pointing at 1st cylinder. It has ‘coughed’ every now and then but for the most part it doesn’t appear to even think about firing.

metering unit timing was a full hole on at no 6 as I could not get it any closer.

any ideas or amy experts out there in Nottingham (Beeston specifically) want to earn some beer tokens to help.

thsnks Tim

 

 

[timpress]

[timpress]

[John L]

I presume its a CP engine?, I'm sure the full hole on #6 at MU should work, as per the manual, but it would be better if it was just opening at the top at TDC. 

Are you actually getting fuel at each injector?, just crack/loosen the fuel line to each injector and see if you are getting fuel there, make sure the MU is in the choke position, so as to give the most fuel.

Have you tried spraying some carb cleaner into the inlets while cranking.

You will need a good battery full charged, to give you the most volts at the coil.

Have you tried a static test on the distributor, 10 degrees before TDC on #1 and the points should be just opening, you can then be retimed later once the engine is running.

John

[Iruka]

Looks like CR throttle bodies, they have twin balance pipes. Did you set the metering unit timing as per the brown book? Page 153. 
Just rebuilt my CR engine, didn’t have a problem setting the cracking point of No 6  rotor hole. Had to remove the pedestal and rotate the pinion gear to get it within the limits though.

Engine started first time after bleeding the injectors etc.

Steve

[John L]

Looking at the photo, yes you are right its a CR manifolds, just need to confirm the rest of the engine is CR. You will also need to fit the vacuum pipe for the servo, blank it off and fit the one to the MU.

John

[timpress]

Thanks for the replies. It’s a CR engine, block was decked, new pistons rings etc, along with a std Newman cam installed. It’s electronic ignition. Battery is in good order and keeps getting top up charges with my noco charger.

reflecting overnight I’m thinking it’s fuel related so will bleed. The metering unit, prv and injectors were refurbished last summer by Neil before I took it off the road. Did about 50 miles only . I didn’t see any spray when cranking so I’ll reverse fill the injector hoses and crank without plugs in and report back. 

[timpress]

A little bit closer to starting. With all bar one injector spraying a conical spray, metering unit ‘choke’ lever all the way across for full fuel, it ran briefly a few times at a few hundred revs. Pressing the accelerator did nothing to help. 
Moved the distributor slightly made it worse, put it back gave me the same ‘nearly starting’ experience. 
Stopped for a bit now to charge battery.

any suggestions where to go next?

thanks 

Tim

Edited May 29, 2022 by timpress

[Waldi]

Hi Tim,

that’s progress!
I would remove some spark plugs to check they are not wet and give a good spark. Beware for flashes if petrol mix is pushed out the cylinders.

Waldi

[Mike C]

Is the ignition timed to fire at about 11 degrees BTDC- I can't see the detail in your photo?

[zelrik]

My quick suggestion is to buy & fit a set of cheap new sparkplugs - just to get you going.

If your old plugs have been "wet" from lots of unburnt fuel; IMO they dont seem to come back to OK again (even with cleaning) unles you run the car for a while. 

[Mk2 Chopper]

Once it fires up do you immediately push the choke lever back in around half way? 

Just to confirm that your vacuum pipe is fitted between the throttle bodies and the MU? If it is you could try a test to make sure the diaphragm is OK in the MU by taking that same pipe off the throttle body and suck on it and the press your tongue in the hole to see if it holds that pressure. The diaphragm is what changes the fuel amount (mixture) when you open the throttle. 

Gareth

[Nigel Triumph]

51 minutes ago, Mk2 Chopper said:

Once it fires up do you immediately push the choke lever back in around half way? 

Just to confirm that your vacuum pipe is fitted between the throttle bodies and the MU? If it is you could try a test to make sure the diaphragm is OK in the MU by taking that same pipe off the throttle body and suck on it and the press your tongue in the hole to see if it holds that pressure. The diaphragm is what changes the fuel amount (mixture) when you open the throttle. 

Gareth

Following Gareth's train of thought, were both vacuum hoses connected when attempting to start (to metering unit and brake servo)? Can't see them in you pics. It's essential both are connected to achieve the expected manifold vacuum, so the MU can fuel correctly. 

Nigel

[timpress]

Hi Folks

Good news as I managed to get the engine started. Seems it was fuel related though I did ensure I had all the vacuum hoses connected as needed. Thanks for all the pointers.

Now time for buttoning up all the little items and get it run in.

[Nigel Triumph]

Well done, hope the inevitable snagging list isn't too long.

Nigel

[timpress]

So more questions unfortunately…

I had started it running for the 20mins run in but after about 5 mins or so the temps ran high and it started gurgling and splurging water out the over flow. 
clearly I stopped the engine, left it a while and undid the radiator cap and topped it up. Started again without the cap and after a while it ran hot again and shot water out the uncapped radiator.

I am not running an electric fan, only a yellow mechanical one it came with rather than the red one I think it should have fitted.

Would you expect it to boil standing still without load (I wouldn’t) and if not any suggestions? I have a new thermostat in the rebuilt engine. Head gasket issue?

thanks again..

Tim

[Waldi]

Hi Tim,

It should not boil when idling, unless in very hot conditions.

I had the same after a rebuild. It could be a matter of air trapped in the system. Put car on ramp, front highest and check water level 

Also, the thermostat needs to have a venting hole, does it? Spring facing downwards also.

Mine was plugged with stuff that got loose from the water channels in the block (I acid cleaned it during the rebuilt but apparently did not remove all residu). Is your coolant clear?

Waldi

 

[Martin50]

Tim,

Did you get all the air out of the water system? I had similar issue when I hadn’t and the water pump wasn’t able to prime and circulate. I jacked up front end of car and put a bottle of water in the rad inlet to give a head of water. Then ran the engine and air bubbled out till it stopped and system was fully primed and circulating. I put the antifreeze mix in once it was primed. Maybe the issue unless you already fully primed / got air out.

[timpress]

Thanks guys, all hoses were hot but I haven’t primed it, I just filled up so will do that tomorrow. Nothing to lose..

 

[ntc]

6 minutes ago, timpress said:

Thanks guys, all hoses were hot but I haven’t primed it, I just filled up so will do that tomorrow. Nothing to lose..

 

You made the classic mistake!!! 
do not replace the cap let it bubble out as soon as it drops top it up just above the cores check the bottom of the radiator is warm replace cap let it cool then check the levels in the radiator and expansion bottle 

[John L]

If its been that hot I would consider now that it has cooled down to do a retorque of the head nuts, before you run again,  slacken each of at least half a turn and pull in one stroke to the torque value, in the correct order starting from the middle, you will have to recheck your tappet settings afterwards.

John

[timpress]

Unfortunately even after bleeding and having the fronT jacked up it was still like a geyser after 5 mins. Any suggestions or do I need to get it into a specialist?

[Mike C]

You might have a head gasket leak. Check the torque on the head bolts. If they're OK maybe do a compression test.

[Waldi]

Remove the thermostat and try again (with front lifted as far as possible). Since the geysir did not occur in the first 5 minutes, I feel it is cooling related.

Waldi

[Martin50]

Tim, if you get a 2 litre fizzy drink plastic bottle and cut the bottom off leaving most of the bottle then you can wedge the top of the bottle into the rad filler. I used masking tap around the bottle top to make a rough seal in the rad filler. Then fill the bottle with water so that you have a head of water above the radiator. Run the engine and you will get bubbles and when the thermostat opens you may get a sudden push of water back thru the bottle but keep topping up the bottle till it doesn’t go down anymore. If you still get bubbles thru the bottle then it is likely you have a head gasket leak. It may take more than 5 minutes to get all the air out. Also turn heater in car on to get air out of that as well. Worth a try.