Re-commissioning a petrol tank & P I System

[John Morrison]

On with going through the bits of a TR6 that has been off the road for 25years

First two of what I guess will be many questions.

The tank, very sound and totally empty, but with light rust inside, can anything be done to avert the risk of problems when back on the road?

Car is original PI, and we have everything, but no one local to re-furbish or re-vamp, recommendations please?

Cheers,

John.

[john.r.davies]

John,

I'm sure you know of the various rust removal methods.      Blasting would seem quite difficult inside a tank, but liquid based methods would work well.   A "weak" organic acid, with a soluble product, not Phosphoric acid but citric, acetic etc., would be easier, or else electrolysis.    A perforated plastic tube to protect the sacrificial electrode from contact with the metal of the tank but allow the electrolyte to circulate would make it safe.

I can't comment of the various coating products that are advertised to line a rusty tank, but it sounds dubious!

John

[TRier]

Throw a few fistfuls of nuts and bolts or sharp clean gravel into it and shake it around for as long as you can take or it takes, that will clean it. Don’t laugh now but if you have a small electric cement mixer or such like as you might use for a bit of work to your patio or whatever, tie/strap the tank to it with the nuts and bolts inside and a half pint of petrol and leave it rotate for a half hour or so. That will work a treat in getting the **** inside off, however usually when they are rusty they leak at some point and it’s not really worth the trouble other than as a get out of jail measure. 

[TRier]

3 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

John,

I'm sure you know of the various rust removal methods.      Blasting would seem quite difficult inside a tank, but liquid based methods would work well.   A "weak" organic acid, with a soluble product, not Phosphoric acid but citric, acetic etc., would be easier, or else electrolysis.    A perforated plastic tube to protect the sacrificial electrode from contact with the metal of the tank but allow the electrolyte to circulate would make it safe.

I can't comment of the various coating products that are advertised to line a rusty tank, but it sounds dubious!

John

That’s a very good idea John, the insulated electrode. I’ve been extensively using electrolysis to clean very rusty components and I’m a big believer in it but have noted that complex items with an “inside” so to speak don’t clean as well. Hadn’t thought of insulating an electrode and putting it inside the component. Going to try that, thanks.

[john.r.davies]

Thank you, TRier!  My genius is at your service!

I've been trying electrolysis too.     My warning there is not, as I did at first, to think  small part-small container.      A 1L jug of electrolyte will  boil dry if left overnight!    A full tank won't boil dry, but it will need topping up frequently - don't leave active overnight!

John

[TRier]

8 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Thank you, TRier!  My genius is at your service!

I've been trying electrolysis too.     My warning there is not, as I did at first, to think  small part-small container.      A 1L jug of electrolyte will  boil dry if left overnight!    A full tank won't boil dry, but it will need topping up frequently - don't leave active overnight!

John

I’ve been using a 100 ltr plastic tub and a 40 amp 24VDC supply, going up now to a 1000 ltr IBC so I can do the bigger body parts, have a lot of heavy surface rusted body panels off a parts car so going to try to save them just as an experiment, I’ve no doubt the electrolysis will do a great job on them but the pitting may put them beyond saving. Should fit full quarter panels in an IBC and they’re cheap.

[Kenrow]

I have had good luck with this. Directions are on the web page (I also used some short pieces of chain with the metal prep and some major shaking).

https://por15.com/products/fuel-tank-sealer

 

 

[astontr6]

22 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

John,

I'm sure you know of the various rust removal methods.      Blasting would seem quite difficult inside a tank, but liquid based methods would work well.   A "weak" organic acid, with a soluble product, not Phosphoric acid but citric, acetic etc., would be easier, or else electrolysis.    A perforated plastic tube to protect the sacrificial electrode from contact with the metal of the tank but allow the electrolyte to circulate would make it safe.

I can't comment of the various coating products that are advertised to line a rusty tank, but it sounds dubious!

John

I would take your tank to a reputable motor cycle tank repairer who would have the right chemicals and equipment to de- rust your tank, carry out any repairs and use a special sealant which is usually of US origin to coat the inside metal. Yes it is ethanol proof. My BSA tank has this treatment!

Bruce.

[john.r.davies]

I fear that "reputable motor cycle tank repairers" have gone the way of the dodo.    Extinct, or at best exceedingly rare.   Unless, astonTR6, you  know differently and can recommend one!

[astontr6]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

I fear that "reputable motor cycle tank repairers" have gone the way of the dodo.    Extinct, or at best exceedingly rare.   Unless, astonTR6, you  know differently and can recommend one!

Please see below:-

 Motorbike Fuel Tank Repairs and Lining - biketankrepair.co.uk 

Tel: 01409 254750 

tankrestorers@gmail.com

Bruce.

[john.r.davies]

Bingo!

[stuart]

Direct link https://www.biketankrepair.co.uk/

About 55 mls from me.

Stuart.

[john.r.davies]

That's fine for the South West, and this outfit is based in Hartlepool, so the North East is catered for: https://www.fueltanks.co.uk/services/motor-cycles/

There's one in Norwich: https://www.tankcareproducts.co.uk/ , one in Barnsley: https://www.rttmotorcycles.co.uk/pages/contact  so my fears of extinction of the breed are unfounded, but if it were a bird, this species would be on the red list!

[john.r.davies]

The concrete mixer idea may work for bike tanks, but cars' are bit big.    Here's another way:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/422474432383069/user/100002543481004

Tank cleaning idea.html

[ed_h]

TR6 tank on a concrete mixer:

 

[john.r.davies]

Wouldn't work for me - I don't have a dog.

Or a concrete mixer.

[John Morrison]

Thanks all,

 

having looked at the costs of some of thesesealants, v the long term potential risk,

with ever changing fuel, we've gone for a new alloy tank.

John.

[Waldi]

Hi John,

while you are at it:

Moss also sell a viton gasket set for the fuel gage, I recommend fitting that  instead of the cork gaskets to battle the vapours.

Waldi

Edit: and Revington sell a filler hose with apparently reduced permeability compared to the original items.

Both are still cheap parts.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Waldi

[astontr6]

11 hours ago, John Morrison said:

Thanks all,

 

having looked at the costs of some of thesesealants, v the long term potential risk,

with ever changing fuel, we've gone for a new alloy tank.

John.

Hi John,

The MOD have carried out tests with ethanol on many materials soft and hard types and they don't recommend aluminum it is classed as not suitable for fuel tanks as it is subject to attack????  and E10 is a definite no no! When are we going to see s/s tanks for sale?? When E5 goes there is going to be a big problem in the classic car world with those that have bought alum tanks.

Bruce.

[john.r.davies]

My genius came up with the protected electrode idea, but here's another.

"Evaporust" has a good reputation, but it's expensive.   £30 for 5L, which won't go far to fill a tank.    But put in your 5L, and then inflate a plastic bag inside the tank until the liquid comes out of the neck, around the balloon.    That should expose all of the inside surface to the rust remover.

No, I've never done this!

John

[John L]

The baffles  would be a problem in the steel tanks?

John

[ed_h]

It's easy to categorize the methods for rust removal commonly available to hobbyists:

Mechanical--scraping, sanding, grinding, tumbling, brushing, blasting

Chemical--acids, chelates

Electrochemical--electrolysis

I've used them all, and they all work, but each has it's drawbacks.  To each his own, but electrolysis is my last choice these days because i find that other methods work as well or better, with less hassle.

Ed

Edited February 22, 2022 by ed_h

[jogger321]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:42 AM, Kenrow said:

I have had good luck with this. Directions are on the web page (I also used some short pieces of chain with the metal prep and some major shaking).

https://por15.com/products/fuel-tank-sealer

I used this on my tank 5 years ago...Not the cheapest but I've had no problems whatsover and would use it again

 

I used a chap called raven smith to refurbish the metering unit, injectors and PRV..If you do a search you will find out all about him..He is a one man band and my dealings with him were fine..He is very resonably priced and knows what he is doing...My TR6  had never run so well once I refitted the reconditioned parts that he did for me

I didn't mess around with the existing pump as it was leaking once I put pressure on it but bought a Bosch kit from malcolm at prestige who is now retired but there are others that sell the kit..if thats the route you want to go

I've done 5K in the car since and it hasn't left be the side of the road and has been fault free with the injection system

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by jogger321

[John Morrison]

29 minutes ago, jogger321 said:

I used this on my tank 5 years ago...Not the cheapest but I've had no problems whatsover and would use it again

 

I used a chap called raven smith to refurbish the metering unit, injectors and PRV..If you do a search you will find out all about him..He is a one man band and my dealings with him were fine..He is very resonably priced and knows what he is doing...My TR6  had never run so well once I refitted the reconditioned parts that he did for me

I didn't mess around with the existing pump as it was leaking once I put pressure on it but bought a Bosch kit from malcolm at prestige who is now retired but there are others that sell the kit..if thats the route you want to go

I've done 5K in the car since and it hasn't left be the side of the road and has been fault free with the injection system

 

 

 

Thank You,

that is very helpful.

 

Re the Ally Tanks, bit of a concern, as I have one in each of my TR's, think thats going to be such it and see,

If we need to change eventually, then thats what we'll do.  Thanks for all the replies,

John.