Tappet Noise or is it a cam follower issue?

[iain]

Hi Ian

 

Oh dear that sounds familiar........I would put a small wager on the followers being galled and sticking. Before it gets worse, strip it down, the cam in my case was OK, just the followers were lunched.

 

Systematic approach in hind-site would be

 

1. Head off.

2. Remove and inspect followers. Look for sidewall galling and lack of rational radial lines on the contact face (to cam). If there is an oblong wipe mark they have not been rotating in their bores......so you have found the problem. Sticking followers.

3. To check the cam...........do you have a good fibre optic inspection camera? as you might be able to see obvious damage with one of these. Otherwise its .....front end off.

 

Good luck

 

Iain

[DRD]

I'm looking to replace my camshaft and have been trying to work out what are the best cam followers to use, there seem to be a number of options to the standard 143552 ones. e.g. lightened ones with a drain hole - TT1209?

 

Ultimately I want ones that will last - does anyone have any recommendations?

 

Thanks

[RogerH]

I'm looking to replace my camshaft and have been trying to work out what are the best cam followers to use, there seem to be a number of options to the standard 143552 ones. e.g. lightened ones with a drain hole - TT1209?

 

Ultimately I want ones that will last - does anyone have any recommendations?

 

Thanks

 

If you are going for a standard TR6 cam then I would suggest the standard followers would suffice.

If something more sporty then you may do well in contacting Newman cams. They do both cams and followers to suit.

http://www.newman-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/newman-cams_triumph.pdf

 

 

Roger

[Ian Vincent]

Hi Ian

 

Oh dear that sounds familiar........I would put a small wager on the followers being galled and sticking. Before it gets worse, strip it down, the cam in my case was OK, just the followers were lunched.

 

Systematic approach in hind-site would be

 

1. Head off.

2. Remove and inspect followers. Look for sidewall galling and lack of rational radial lines on the contact face (to cam). If there is an oblong wipe mark they have not been rotating in their bores......so you have found the problem. Sticking followers.

3. To check the cam...........do you have a good fibre optic inspection camera? as you might be able to see obvious damage with one of these. Otherwise its .....front end off.

 

Good luck

 

Iain

Thks for this Iain. Yep listening to your video again it sounds remarkably similar to mine so I guess its head off time.

 

Rgds Ian

[RogerH]

Good luck

 

Roger

[Ian Vincent]

Head now removed and several of the followers are showing evidence of grabbing on the side whilst the bearing surfaces on two are showing signs of damage.

 

More annoyingly, the lobe on cam no.5 is visible down the bore and it has what looks like a fatigue crack developing along the peak pressure area so I guess that has to come out and I'm in the market for a new camshaft as well as followers. Any suggestions? The one that has failed is a Piper fast road cam and apart from the premature failure it drove OK with plenty of low end torque.

 

I packed up and came in for a beer once the head was off so I have yet to measure the liner protrusion but that is feeling worryingly small on no. 1. Not a good day!

 

Rgds Ian

[iain]

Enjoy the relaxing beer.....tomorrow is another day.

 

Cams.....I chose a Kent Hi torque/ Revington Fast road........it’s good but doesn’t have the low down grunt of an original profile, but it does love to rev. Horses for courses......for me the jury is still out.

 

Iain

[RogerH]

Head now removed and several of the followers are showing evidence of grabbing on the side whilst the bearing surfaces on two are showing signs of damage.

 

More annoyingly, the lobe on cam no.5 is visible down the bore and it has what looks like a fatigue crack developing along the peak pressure area so I guess that has to come out and I'm in the market for a new camshaft as well as followers. Any suggestions? The one that has failed is a Piper fast road cam and apart from the premature failure it drove OK with plenty of low end torque.

 

I packed up and came in for a beer once the head was off so I have yet to measure the liner protrusion but that is feeling worryingly small on no. 1. Not a good day!

 

Rgds Ian

 

Hi Ian,

my recent venture into cams showed that the Newman PH-1 road cam is as smooth as a standard cam but when you put your foot down there is power aplenty.

The Moss TT1104N road cam is not so good at low down rev - rough idling etc - but it went like a rocket.

Haven't a clue about fast road but what I have heard is that they need to be carefully tuned otherwise they are rough.

 

Roger

[Ian Vincent]

One of the beauties of the Piper cam was that its timing was the same as the standard so it made resetting the valve timing a breeze. Is the Newman the same or will I have to faff about with a timing protractor - which I will have to find somewhere in the garage!

 

Rgds Ian

[RogerH]

Hi Ian,

both the Newman and the Moss TT cams require a timing disc.

 

It is quite easy once you realise that #1 intake lobe is not the front one -

Set crank to TDC

Set #1 Intake lobe to max

Set crank to timing angle (Newman = 110) and connect your sprocket.

 

Roger

[DRD]

If you are going for a standard TR6 cam then I would suggest the standard followers would suffice.

If something more sporty then you may do well in contacting Newman cams. They do both cams and followers to suit.

http://www.newman-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/newman-cams_triumph.pdf

 

 

Roger

OK thanks Roger.

 

Daz

[graeme]

+1 for the Newman cam and followers.

[Ian Vincent]

I guess that's decision made then as Newman cams are also one of the cheapest. Thks all.

 

I'll let you know how I got on in the course.

 

Rgds Ian

[Lebro]

Hi Ian,

both the Newman and the Moss TT cams require a timing disc.

 

It is quite easy once you realise that #1 intake lobe is not the front one -

1) Set crank to TDC

2) Set #1 Intake lobe to max

3) Set crank to timing angle (Newman = 110) and connect your sprocket.

 

Roger

Why step 1, if you then move it in step 3 ?

 

Bob.

 

P.S. Think I may have answered my own question - is it to set up the timing disc ?

Edited May 10, 2018 by Lebro

[RogerH]

[Ian Vincent]

When I checked the spec more closely, the Newman cam is timed for max opening at 110 deg which is the same as the standard TR cam so it can be set using the timing marks on the gears.

 

I will check it with the disc though.

 

Rgds Ian

[RogerH]

Hi Ian,

that is good to know. The timing angle isn;t generally mentioned with the standard cam.

 

You can also be crafty with the timing angle.

if you use say 105 degrees (rather than the 110) then you bring the torque on either at the bottom or top of the rev range.

Likewise if you make it 115' then the torque comes on at the opposite end from above. (but I don't know which.)

 

Roger

[Motorsport Mickey]

Hi Ian,

that is good to know. The timing angle isn;t generally mentioned with the standard cam.

 

You can also be crafty with the timing angle.

if you use say 105 degrees (rather than the 110) then you bring the torque on either at the bottom or top of the rev range.

Likewise if you make it 115' then the torque comes on at the opposite end from above. (but I don't know which.)

 

Roger

Simplistically Roger retarding the camshaft moves the torque higher up the rev range and the reverse for advancing it.

Here's a nice little article on it, http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1211-degreeing-a-camshaft/

 

but to maximise on overall torque delivery throughout the rev range then you need to think of running a timing chain with extra length and a solenoid or hydraulic valve fitted so as to extend the chain or belt tensioner position whilst in motion to change the degreeing on the camshaft at predetermined revs...oh the things you do.

 

 

Mick Richards

Edited May 11, 2018 by Motorsport Mickey

[Ian Vincent]

Simplistically Roger retarding the camshaft moves the torque higher up the rev range and the reverse for advancing it.

Here's a nice little article on it, http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1211-degreeing-a-camshaft/

 

but to maximise on overall torque delivery throughout the rev range then you need to think of running a timing chain with extra length and a solenoid or hydraulic valve fitted so as to extend the chain or belt tensioner position whilst in motion to change the degreeing on the camshaft at predetermined revs...oh the things you do.

 

 

Mick Richards

 

This is starting to sound like variable valve timing!

 

Rgds Ian

[Motorsport Mickey]

If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck and has a bill...it's a duck.

(well a version of Cam phasing anyway).

 

Mick Richards

Edited May 11, 2018 by Motorsport Mickey

[Damson6]

 

If you are going for a standard TR6 cam then I would suggest the standard followers would suffice.

If something more sporty then you may do well in contacting Newman cams. They do both cams and followers to suit.

http://www.newman-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/newman-cams_triumph.pdf

 

 

Roger

+1 for Newman cams

[Ian Vincent]

To provide an update on this story, my story, a new PH1 cam is on order from Newman, in terms of profile it doesn't differ substantially from the Piper one that I had previously apart from having slightly less lift but a slightly longer duration and a bit more overlap so I shouldn't imagine there will be a world of difference in the performance.

 

The attached photos are of lobes 1 and 5 on the cam I have just removed - I would guess they are just about to go. Does the old cam have any value to anyone before I take it to the recycling centre?

 

Rgds Ian

 

 

[RogerH]

Hi Ian,

they do not look too bad considering what can happen.

 

What followers are you getting.?

 

Roger

[Ian Vincent]

I know it doesn't look too bad, but it was only going to get worse.

 

Newman ones to go with the cam. Not the fancy high performance ones, the basic ones as recommended by Ken Newman when I spoke to him. Let's face it, it's a toy that gets used for a max of 2000 to 3000 miles per year so it doesn't need the sort that you go racing with.

 

Rgds Ian

[RogerH]

Hi Ian,

their chilled iron followers work well.

 

 

Roger